Real Time Turn Based Strategy Upgrade

from Elemental Forums

Has anyone here played final fantasy or chrono trigger?  Those are two great real time turn based RPGs.  After reading frogboy's new dev post, I got an idea.

He sounds at a loss about how to make turn based fun in multiplayer since FPS and real time are king.

I loved chrono trigger's turn based because it didn't warp you out into another screen to fight, and the game gave you the option for REAL TIME turn based battles.  The enemy would act once its energy bar filled up, not once you ended your turn.  It wouldn't wait for you to pick your spells or use your healing potion either.  It made it alot more fun and challenging.

Maybe you need to overhaul the game and turn it into a real time, turn based game.  Where you order your units and wait for their energy bar to fill up before using them again, including buildings, and not having to hit an end turn button.  Research could be put on a timer as well.

That way you can do a real time, turn based strategy, and apply that to the cloth map AND tactical battles.  For example, your sovereign has a energy bar, and you move him 5 spaces on the map and he casts a spell at the 5th space.  Then after a time (you can specify this time length for balance) he can move again without the player needing to push a END turn button.  Neutral monsters can do the same thing as well as computer AI.

That way you can make things feel more fluid and fun.  Up to you.  I'm sure you could adapt that kind of thing to properly fit in your game, but its up to you frogboy.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

He sounds at a loss about how to make turn based fun in multiplayer since FPS and real time are king.
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What?

And controlling thousands of units and buildings this way would be totally unmanageable. The game is set to be a TBS 4x, which is pretty well defined. What you have described is a totally different game than is being made. No offense, but i don't think they are gonna rework everything from one system proven to work for TBS games to another system that isn't made for TBS games. It would make no sense.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

maybe a mod ... but I would dislike seeing something like this in the Original (or the "good" mods)

That being said, its not a bad idea ... for some other game. >_>

 

On that respect, we could also have "Time Wars" where turns start out very fast, and the idea is to build up your time bank, as well as build cities devoted to increasing your time output, in order to Strategically Use these extra times at the right moment for victory.

Maybe we could include time travel as well. Reminds me, has that RTS dealing primarily with Time Travel come out yet? It looks pretty cool for an RTS.

 

** I haven't really liked RTS's since the original Empire Earth, although the first Dawn of War (+ expansions) was pretty fun.

Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm not saying this with attitude or anger, so don't take it that way.

I really don't care if you like it or not.  It was just a suggestion.  Frogboy said he was trying to figure out how to make a turn based game of 32 players online at one time fun.  I really don't see how you can make that fun without getting rid of an end turn button.  That's more appropriate for a single player experience.  And yes that's MY opinion.

Do you realistically think that alot of players are going to sit there and wait for 32 people to make their turn?  Uh uh.  Some will, but not enough to fill up a lobby with plenty of games.  Sins of the solar empire's multiplayer is practically dead.  Is sins a bad game? NO!  But the games take way too long to enjoy them as multiplayer games even after they buffed the time.

 I once had a sins game that took 4 hours, I vowed to never do that again, ughhh.  Single player was good though.

If Stardock comes up with a way to make it fun, then I don't care if they keep the current system.  But as the games get further advanced, players are going to take LONGER to end their turn, multiply that by 32, ouchy!  No thanks.  Singleplayer for me.  I've got way too much to do in my life other then play all day on a multiplayer turn based game of a whopping 32 people.

 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Hmm, nice avatar.

Anyways, what I was saying is that "time bars" and such seem like some-what of a waste. As well as city improvements which increase your time per turn imho.

Simultaneous Turns -> Yes, everyone should be able to work at the same time

Simultaneous Tactical Battles -> Yes, everyone should be able to fight their wars at the same time

 

Adventuring Party-- Here is where we might have more agreement. I think that an Adventuring Party (at least on multiplayer) is a bit of a give and take. On one hand, you have a high density of Champions, and potentially your sovereign, while on the other hand, they are some-what vulnerable to be attacked by large rival armies. How about giving them a higher evasion score (more easy to sidestep an Army trying to attack them), a greater visibility score, and perhaps if a Sovereign is in the Adventuring Party, increase Overland Map movement speeds by 30 or 50% (so that a Sovereign's Party moves faster). Also, I think that THIS should be the only type of army/unit that has a Time bar. Every 40 seconds (regardless of turn) all adventuring parties can move. Only adventuring parties can enter dungeons (mini Overland maps with lots of "random" or preplaced battles), and only adventuring parties can pick up certain chests/loot, and only adventuring parties have access to certain quests (especially if that quest involves a dungeon). So if someone spends 5 minutes in a large battle, another person could move his adventuring party 6 times! Thats assuming that the adventuring party doesnt run into any random battles which probably take about 30 seconds to a minute each. Although, random battles where the Mobs are just TOO WEAK to fight can be AutoResolved (if chances of victory greater than 97%). Of course ... im not sure what would happen if someone lost a Champion to a 97% victory battle .... but it would certainly suck. Maybe a weighted RNG in such situations? Or maybe if a Champion is half health or less you could zoom to the tactical battle? Or maybe you could choose that sort of thing in AutoResolve settings for Adventuring parties?

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I really don't care if you like it or not. It was just a suggestion.
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More power to you on the free speech side of things, but you did post in a notoriously fractious public forum where any three words typed together seem fair game for all manner of praise, heckling, and digressive over-analysis.

That said, I'm mainly posting because I'd like to mention how much I appreciate it when the devs say that they won't sacrifice any single-player functionality in the name of MP support. I'm trying to stay open-minded enough to give MP a try, but nearly every MP-related debate I've seen simply confirms my disinterest in the format, with the possible exception of LAN games among real friends.

Plus, I really have to cold scoff the phrase "real time turn based strategy." That's about as logical a string of words as "vegan-friendly beef."

Not that I'm opinionated or anything...

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Do you realistically think that alot of players are going to sit there and wait for 32 people to make their turn? Uh uh.
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turns are simultaneous. No waiting since everyone takes their turn at the same time. The total time to get back to your turn will be the same whether there are 2 other players or 200.

And i am glad you posted an idea. I just think the idea is bad.

And a sins game that took 4 hours? thats way too short. If they don't take 12+ hours is just boring. I want to have to have take multiple meals breaks throughout the game.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

And a sins game that took 4 hours? thats way too short. If they don't take 12+ hours is just boring. I want to have to have take multiple meals breaks throughout the game.
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RTS short is so profoundly different from TBS short. If I ever got sucked into MP with strangers, I'd never expect a decent game to take less than a few months. But then I'm a single-player megamap TBS fan and I respectfully reject the idea that any computer game has ever more than faintly resembled a 'true' RPG.