Expanding Resources - Metals

Iron, Steel, cetera

from Elemental Forums

Although this game is still in its early stages of development and I presume there is still more information to be released, I have only noticed there is but one metal, being Iron. As we all know and have experienced, other 4X games have made very depth resources to which we can mine and eventually improve the strength of our weapons and armors with. Thus, I don't see any other reason why we can't do it for Elemental War of Magic but implement in such a fashion it is interesting and isn't overwhelming the game map and game design.

 

My doctrine is add more then just Iron, like how their is multiple elements with their relating magic-containing crystals which we can use to imbue our weapons, yet have greater attribute increasing effects or whatever the metal resource the Iron affects and broaden the strategic depth of the game. But instead of having more resources around the map, more cluttering and any other annoyances, we'll put all the metal resources "together".

 

Meaning, instead of you mining Iron at this source, Mithril at another, Silver here and Adamantium in your underwear, we'll put more then one resource into one graphical mining site. It'll bulletin my thoughts below:

  •  In order to discover greater, rare and less-distributed metal resources, you have to research higher in the technology tier of Civilization, which I assume includes Mining and other related technologies to using ores.
  •  Once you discover the appropriate technology, it will reveal across the map where those superior and rarer metals are alongside the Iron.
  •  The concept is, as your Mining technology improves, you are mining deeper into the planet but also able to acquire, understand and smelt the ores appropriately, unless other technologies cover those relating fields.
  •  Mining multiple resources at the one same mining site does not impair the others. Meaning, if you been mining Iron and getting 10 units of Iron Ore per turn at some particular site, you will simply be getting a second batch of 5 units of Mithril Ore alongside the Iron Ore every turn. 10 units of Iron Ore + 5 units of Mithril Ore now. One does not replace the other.
  • As you mine more resources at one particular site, the Mining site expands dramatically in terms of size and equipment (graphical-wise) and more Caravans are required to haul the new Ores. This can reveal to your neighbors that you have discovered and are acquiring greater metals and increasing your military force multipliers.
  • Concluding with an example, if the Random Map Generator spawned a map with 10 metal resources they'll all be Iron of course. Yet, the chances of discovering Mithrill will be 1/2 meaning out of those 10 sites, only 5 will contain Mithril deep blow the Iron Ore deposits. Furthermore, Adamantium is the most strongest, durable metal in the world thus out of these ten sites, there will only be two that have them below the Mithril Ore deposits. Even better, if the RMG created two separate continents, those resources would be divided half and half meaning only one Adamantium Ore on each continent and the Mithril whichever continent holds more players or maybe the 5th is strategically located on an nearby island.

I hope this idea isn't complicated and neither degenerating of the game design. I want it because it could broaden the strategic scope of things, allowing players to improve their militaries through superior metals and enhance the diplomatic and geopolitical avenues the game will explore. Meaning, if your one of the most powerful players and you discover first your weakling neighbor has access to Adamnatium and all you still have is Iron, you could risk gambling leaving your other frontiers unguarded and conquering your small neighbor with full force. However, if you did not know and they found out first and began mining and equipping their forces with the 3x superior Adamantium, their small armies will have awesome force mulitpliers when it comes to Attack and Defense against your vastly larger, but now technologically inferior armor.

Lastly, if one Civilization/Player has researched the highest pinnacle of Mining meaning they'll have access to Adamantium, they're discovering and hold secrets from everyone else. This is awesome knowledge power and diplomatically. You could through however Elemental War of Magic allows, mine at another Player's mining site for that Adamantium or Mithril and actually supply them in superior weaponry in exchange for the Ores you're receiving.

6,435 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

If this path were followed, I would suggest the following adjustment:

When a new metal/use/technology is discovered, please don't automatically reveal the sources on the map.  If one of the sources happens to be in one of your existing mines, sure...your miners will recognize it.  On the other hand, if you have recently discovered a use for that dark red rock that you used to think was just a rock, you need to re-explore your kingdom to find where those rocks were.  If they are in the bounderies of a city, you know about them.  If they are in a remote valley that you have not visited since your initial exploration a decade back, you need to explore again to find them.

You know, you ought to check those remote valleys from time to time anyway.  There might be a group of gypsies who set up a camp there and who could read your palm and tell you whether your next child will be destined for glory or turn out to ba a traitor (reveal stats of next child).  Or there may be a band of orcs preparing to raid your villages!  So my mildly related suggestion is that we ought to have random events occur in previously explored areas that are outside of our active visibility range, and we ought not to know of these events until we discover them somehow.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Goodmorning all

The only problem with this is that it then requires you to do manual scouting. yuck.   Part of the premise of the game is that the world is alive, bands of explores leave your town and walk around all the time, marching into caves and getting themselves killed, or returning with gold and getting tottally hammered in your bars(providing you the gold via taxation, or a fraction of it.)  we're going to be able to watch this all happen.

Perhaps having those people 'discover' the resourses over time, So  the red ore is there, but untill a team of adventures, or you if you insist on faster results, who happen to have one person with mining training or ore recognition, pass by and return alive you don't know about it. 

That could work.
  Robbie Price

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cleflar, reply 1
If this path were followed, I would suggest the following adjustment:

When a new metal/use/technology is discovered, please don't automatically reveal the sources on the map.  If one of the sources happens to be in one of your existing mines, sure...your miners will recognize it.  On the other hand, if you have recently discovered a use for that dark red rock that you used to think was just a rock, you need to re-explore your kingdom to find where those rocks were.  If they are in the bounderies of a city, you know about them.  If they are in a remote valley that you have not visited since your initial exploration a decade back, you need to explore again to find them.

You know, you ought to check those remote valleys from time to time anyway.  There might be a group of gypsies who set up a camp there and who could read your palm and tell you whether your next child will be destined for glory or turn out to ba a traitor (reveal stats of next child).  Or there may be a band of orcs preparing to raid your villages!  So my mildly related suggestion is that we ought to have random events occur in previously explored areas that are outside of our active visibility range, and we ought not to know of these events until we discover them somehow.
End of cleflar's quote

I agree with your suggestion about how other metals shouldn't be revealed if they are not in your vicinity as it makes perfect sense.

 

Quoting Robbie.Price, reply 2
Goodmorning all

The only problem with this is that it then requires you to do manual scouting. yuck.   Part of the premise of the game is that the world is alive, bands of explores leave your town and walk around all the time, marching into caves and getting themselves killed, or returning with gold and getting tottally hammered in your bars(providing you the gold via taxation, or a fraction of it.)  we're going to be able to watch this all happen.

Perhaps having those people 'discover' the resourses over time, So  the red ore is there, but untill a team of adventures, or you if you insist on faster results, who happen to have one person with mining training or ore recognition, pass by and return alive you don't know about it. 

That could work.
  Robbie Price
End of Robbie.Price's quote

I'm not sure who are you replying back to specifically, but I feel if we left adventururs to discovering random resources, it could be an interesting feature but for one as major and army-oriented as metal is, I don't think it is a good idea. Furthermore, I can't see how they would still come upon much when we have your civilizations miners going dozens of feet below the ground digging for ore. My argument isn't based on realism, but practicality and strategy in my personal perception, being I feel all metal resources should be contained altogether and as you discover the required technologies to reveal and mine them, you'll see if you have them or not as you will receive, say, a pop-up and an gradual but major expansion of that particular mining site. I feel if we approach this kind of depth this way, it will force the human players and artifical intelligences to become more preoccupied with the really few metal hotspots on the map and naturally become more paranoid about what makes your empire progressing and being great and all your neighbors jealous of your resources.

For example, say we have three players and one continent. These three players know there is three metal spots on the continent within close reach of each other. That's good there is a balance of power between each other and no one is really considering teaming up together and overwhelming the 3rd momentarily. We are progressing late into the game and all three still remain aggressive but never overextending for fear of their other neighbor taking an advantage. All three have moved past Iron and discovered Mithril in their metal spots. However, player 1 and player 2 have noticed that player 3's metal mine has expanded three times as large instead of two like theres, looking like a damn strip mine project with many caravans hauling more ore meaning one thing: all this mining equipment and larger facility are here to accomodate the extraction of Adamantium, the next step after Mithril. You can naturally see what happens in this example. Player 1 and player 2 know if they do not quickly move to usurp player 3's new force multiplier, their Mithril-based armies will both combined, eventually be outmatched by player 3's smaller but Adamantium-based army that will overpower them if fully equipped with the new metal.

Personally, I just don't see it feasible gameplay-wise and realistic how any group of adventurers should be allowed to discover game-changing resources when your civilizations agents and miners couldn't. Artifacts, ancient ruins, hostile caves shouldn't hold something that can equip your entire army with superior equipment. I think its far more understandable and suitable if they could discover an ancient artifact that can change landscape, battlefields, transform several hundred men into demons temporarily, cetera...

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

My bad, i thought you were refering to metals being at differnt sites,  al. la. Civ 4, where when you finish a tech all the iron spots all pop up at once.   which is sortof unrealistic in this sanario, 

but if all the metals are in one place the point is mostly mute

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the idea of different grade materials going into weapons, but I don't like the idea of having lots of different types of resources scattered on the map for me to keep up with.  What if a simpler system was used, where all metal shows up on the map as a light gray to dark gray.  The darker the metal, the higher the quality/richer the deposit.

When you first start, all metal on the map is visible, but it all appears as light gray.  As you advance in tech, you realize that some of the deposits are much better than others.  The darker the deposit, the more metal you mine per turn.

When outfitting your soldiers, you can select different quality grades of weaponry and armor.  Higher quality will eat through your metal faster and take longer to train.

This gives us the tactical difference of quality of equipment and the strategic difference in what to go for on the map, as well as the evolving of metal on the map, without having to juggle how much copper/bronze/mithril/adamantine I have.