Please Include the Editors as Game-Play Tools.

these are also known as the modding tools, which we know are going to be in.

I certainly agree that 'tools' that can fit into gameplay give the most bang for the buck. In GC2, the ship editor was ENTIRELY in-game, and became a notable in most reviews. If it was purely a 'mod tool', those reviews probably would mentoned it as a side-though...if mentoned at all.

That said, we're having a much harder time finding clever ways to include the editors as game-features this time around. A 'spell editor' is great, but if it's an actual 'game feature', there need to be balance and limitation to prevent exploitation. For example, perhaps there is actual loot that has to be 'used' to influence the effect of the spell ('Heart of Ice Wolf' = +10 Ice Attack DMG). As of now, the editors are completely open to ANY values and combinations, which would have to be streamlined to make sense  (and, again, not exploitable) in-game.

Anyways, it's something were definatly thinking about.  I'll keep ya posted!

edit: I may have read too much into this post. Yes, we're going to jam as many editors as we can into the game itself (opposed to external EXE's).

Most of the editors are built into the game.

Awesome!

About that spell editor.

Different ingame events (spells, discoveries, research ++) could give karma that you could use in the spell editor.

A little cute spell like blessing could be "made" out of 10 karma points. Fireball would take 40 karma points. Then you have to deciede if you save for that expensive fireball, or if you go for a quick fix of bless that would help expansion early game.

just a thought! And dont focus on me calling it karma. I couldt think of a better name.

And ofcourse the strength of spells like fireball could be increased by using even more karma.

Maybe "Mana" or "Essence". That would be a good way to balance the spell creation system. Have it cost Essence to create spells. The stronger the spell, the more effects or attributes you add to the spell, the more Essence it costs.

That's what i was thinking...a similar approach to the spell-creation system in Oblivion

Mike

If you need a hand with more detailed balancing I'd be happy to volunteer my services. I used to design Spells, Items with Spell Like Abilities, and Skill sets for UO (Ultima Online). I have about 3 years actual experience designing these for use on the Official Servers as a GM and Seer.

Just as long as the in-gaming doesn't restrict the values for out-of-game modding...... one of my big headaches in GC2 was that you had to go and tinker with unrealistically powerful ships in the XML becuase the ship editor was completely reality-based.

Yes!

A common grip in GalCiv2 was the inability to change the color of your race (or other races).  Too often, one would find themselved halfway through a great game only to find two or more races using the same color, making it difficult to tell what was going on.

In my post Populous in EWOM, how exactly do you want it? , I've suggested that "Map builder UI shows up allow gamer create/destroy map terrain tile & tile.   Cost is paid by essence." 

There should be pre-game option to enable/disable the Map builder or other editor.   Essence should represent the cost to alter reality.   The more you pay, the more powerful your Populous-like power.  

(A even crazier suggestion, make these editor(s) individually avaliable when gamer customize their race, before the game start.  For example, if a gamer want access to the Mapbuilder in game, he cannot research as many spells as other palerys.   EWOM should have more variety than just choosing faction, #of opponent and 4 victory conditions)

Effort should be spent on the main gameplay, the balance of these reality-alternating editor should not be too important.   Assign an essence cost, then the gamers can suggest appropriate cost balances.  A later patch can then be added to make those god-like power more balanced.  Just a suggestion

Spell creation system as in Oblivion...? NOooooo! Playing with cost/range/power/critical chance/duration sliders, in order to create the most unbalanced spell, is something that I really don't want to see in this game. First, it's tedious for players to read through tons of topics, just to know if their spell composition isn't screwed. Second, balancing such monstrosity (system) is a task for true heroes (or fools). With sufficiently big selection of distinctive and meaningful (ie. no useless spells) spells, most players won't ask for anything more. Do I have to say, how easier is to balance such spells?

I don't think he means by that much of an extreme as in Oblivion. More like balancing costs. Say you pump up the damage of your Fire spell by 5 points. That will cost you 5 Essence. (or whatever number they decide) It's purely a mechanic.

I am going to make soooo much crap with those editors.

I would also like to habe the ability to use these editors to enhance my opponets or create new opponets while the game is going on.  For example if I'm winning I would like to go to the editor and add some bad guy units that invade (either through a portal or some other way) my lands that I would have to over come.

Is there any good documentation on using the GC2 (I got all the suppiments) editors that you can access from the start screen?

Me to....me too. Troop editor and Spell Editor will be used the most by me unless the editors are just too much of a pain to use (which I hope not.) I'm no programer so I hope I would have to learn a programming language just to use the editors.