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You Can "Know"

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You Can "Know"

With Full Assurance

from JoeUser Forums

"Freedom comes from knowing the truth.  Bondage results from missing it."

I read those words recently from a well known Pastor.  I thought, "Ain't that the truth?" 

Someone here on JU asked me recently how I can "know" that I'm going to heaven since he believes we really can't know for sure.  I refuted that, because I do absolutely know for sure I'm going to heaven.  I have been set free from that doubt of not knowing. 

There are some religious groups out there that teach you can't be sure.  One teaches the best time to die is when you're walking out of a confession booth.  That would be the only time you can be sure of your salvation.  How sad.

I say nonsense.  All a bunch of nonsense. It's a man-made teaching. They are teaching fear and guilt to keep you in line.  That's all that is. Some call it brainwashing.  I agree.   If I must do or not do something to keep from losing my salvation, then salvation would have to be by faith and works.  Keeps me coming!! 

It's the works part, these religious organizations are most after.  If they can convince you of this, you will continue to work and work and work for the church to ensure that your ticket to the hereafter is secure. 

Nonesense.   I believe this type of teaching is exactly why so many are dissatisfied with organized religion.  I don't blame them one bit.  Someday, the leaders in these churches will have alot to answer for.  With much responsibility comes much accountability. 

So what is at stake?  Many things.  Peace, assurance, joy, love for instance.  They all are related.  If you don't have assurance of God's acceptance you can't have peace and without peace you can have no joy.  A person with no peace is really motivated by fear.  Fear and love don't match up well. 

John said this:

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life."  1 John 5:13

Think about it.   If Christ came to seek and save the lost wouldn't it have been wise on God's part to snatch us to heaven right then, the moment we are saved in order to insure we make it?  Otherwise God is taking a great risk  forcing us to stay here and walk thru a very sinful world.  Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that "bad company corrupts good character."  We all know there's plenty of bad characters around us every day. 

Another thing to think about.  If we don't have this assurance, peace, and joy because it's replaced by fear in losing our salvation doesn't that spill over to worry?  Didn't Jesus tell us worrying is a sin?  Didn't Paul tell us to be anxious over nothing?  How can we reconcile these things if God is holding our ticket to heaven over our heads in the hopes we are good little boys and girls.  If we mess up.....oh well.  Ticket rescinded.

No, the only way we can have the peace and joy and assurance is to believe Christ when he said those that come to him can have eternal life.  When we come to him, he says, we can have life more abundantly.  This is not the same type of life the world offers.  But if we tell others that we can't be sure of our eternal security then it's no diff than what the world offers.  Who wants that?   The world offers, fear, worry, anxiety and hate.  Who needs that? 

Salvation has to be by faith alone.  Once good works are introduced into the salvation process then it gets all chaotic and complicated.  It is no longer by faith alone but by faith and works and to say that is to take the daily burden of our salvation upon ourselves.  Then you have to ask, why did Jesus come to die?  Didn't he take this burden from off our shoulders?  Didn't he carry it instead?   If we believe our salvation is determined by our works, it pretty much contradicts just about every doctrine in scripture spoken by Christ and written down by the Apostles. 

Think about this.  If our salvation is not secure how could Jesus say "they will never perish?"  (John 10:28) If we receive eternal life but then forfeited it thru sin, either by not doing what we should do or doing what we shouldn't do, will we not perish?   By doing so, don't we make Jesus words to be a lie, null and void?   Didn't he die for our sins, past, present and future?  I believe he did. 

I guess it really comes down to trust and commitment.  Jesus is calling us to do more than just believe in his existence.  He's calling us to put our trust in him, in his words and in his death in exchange for our sins.  That's it.  Even a child can understand this. 

"Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."  Romans 5:1

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is recokoned as righteousness."  Romans 4:5.

 

 

 

religion
87,307 views 818 replies
Reply #476 from Stardock Forums Top

First off you SHOULD NEVER pack your bible. It should be on the front seat with you on the trip..
End of quote

Why, does Jesus need to see where you're going? Can't he watch over you from inside the suitcase?

Reply #477 from JoeUser Forums Top

If it is possible to have such then why was it never mentioned by him? Why did he not cover this stipulation that would refer to Paul specifically? I find it hard to think that Jesus would overlook anything. And if it's true that Jesus did indeed appear to Paul and make him a disciple why didn't he cover this in his description of false prophets? Surely he would have known about Paul when he spoke these words, if as you say, he's God incarnate, wouldn't he? All this he spoke of in relation to false prophets and how one could know them.

It is my understanding that a prophet is one who relates to the people the word of God that has been specifically received by them directly from God, along with warnings of bad behavior and the consequences of such. In this Paul does fall into this category.
End of quote

You asked me to show you where Moses was a prophet and I did.  Now I want to ask you...where are you getting that Paul was a prophet? 

Were any of the Apostles called Prophets? 

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #478 from JoeUser Forums Top

Why, does Jesus need to see where you're going? Can't he watch over you from inside the suitcase?
End of quote

My comment had nothing to do with Jesus seeing where we are going.  Why would you think that? 

Reply #479 from Stardock Forums Top

My comment had nothing to do with Jesus seeing where we are going. Why would you think that?
End of quote

Partly a joke. What DID you mean?

Reply #480 from JoeUser Forums Top

ok...LOL. 

I meant that the Word of God should be as important as physical food is to our physical body.  We don't totally pack food away when we move until we can get to it later do we?  No, we need nourishment everyday to function properly.  It's the same with the WOD.   

That's why Jesus said "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." 

Spiritual food is actually more refreshing, satisfying and invigorating than physical food is for those who have tasted it. 

 

Reply #481 from JoeUser Forums Top

Isn't that what every individual is supposed to do? Isn't religion supposed to be personal and subjective? Aren't you supposed to keep it to yourself?
End of quote

 

Good point; with ANYTHING you read (watch, etc.), you go with your interpretation.

Reply #482 from JoeUser Forums Top

 "He said the harvest is plentiful but the laborors are few.  We are to be busy sowing and reaping  as we are given the opportunity to do so."

How many are you KFC, couple of hundred thousand and growing, and lets not forget the few hundred thousand Jehovahs Witnesses, or the thousands of Mormans and various other christian sects out there spreading the gospel as well.  The laborers are few?  I'd say there's a great deal of you out there.  I'm thinking that when Jesus was speaking of laborers he wasn't speaking of either born agains or christians in general.  Few surely doesn't mean hundreds of thousands, even in Jesus's time that was an awful lot of people.

When I read it this passage it was to "spread the good news", not the gospel.  The good news was that Jesus had defeated death by rising from the dead, and in that he paved the way and made it acceptable to God for all mankind to do the same.

No, KFC, I'm not ready to admit to Paul.  And I'm not ready to admit that John the Baptist wasn't Elijah either.   I'm of the opinion that people are more than willing to bend Jesus's words to suit and make it acceptable to our own understanding simply because we don't believe these things are possible.  I tell you that they are possible, not only are they possible but that there will someday be others that will do the same, not prophets, or divine beings but everyday common ordinary people. 

Well I'm thinking that there are far too many of us that "have faith and belief" and the idea that Jesus died for our sins which makes so many of us think that that is all it takes.   It takes effort and it LITERALLY takes walking the path of Jesus, which is not just bible study, spreading the gospel, or tithing for the poor or the church.  Jesus said to sell ALL we own, or give it away and give the money to the poor..........not 10% not 25% percent but ALL of it.  To rely completely and totally on God for our own well being which means ones health, ones food, ones clothing and where one will rest their head each night, and not worry about one's life nor try to save it.  Because he who clings to it will lose it, but he who dies for me will find it, and he wasn't speaking of martyrdom either, but the willingness and desire to leave this life behind, because if one is still attracted to the things of this life they will not enter into the next with that kind of baggage.   Hence the parable of the lilies of the field.  (And this more than anything makes me wonder about Paul, the apostles did this thing, he did not.)  One must leave everything behind, friends and family, including mother, father, brother, sister, husband/wife, and children.  No small feat for anyone, and most are not willing to do this.  Instead they prefer to think that good works, faith, belief, charity. and the mistaken idea that Jesus died for ones sins is enough.  It is not.  Jesus meant every word that he said.  He was dead serious, and it is not open to anyones idea of interpretation either.  One will either do just this and enter into this other world where Jesus dwells as king or they will not enter at all. 

Reply #483 from JoeUser Forums Top

You didn't answer my question about Paul being a prophet.  How come? 

The laborers are few?
End of quote

yes and getting fewer.  Many may claim Christ as Savior but are unwilling to work for him.  Quite content to have a savior but not as content in having a Lord over them.  Anyone involved in church business knows quite well the 20/80 factor. 

Jesus said to sell ALL we own, or give it away and give the money to the poor..........not 10% not 25% percent but ALL of it.
End of quote

show me where he told US to do this.  You are speaking of his conversation with the rich young ruler correct?  Now, show me where he told the rest of us to do this.  You've done this?  What about Abraham?  Solomon?  David?  All rich but were all strong men  of God and used of God.  They did not do what you are advocating. 

One must leave everything behind, friends and family, including mother, father, brother, sister, husband/wife, and children
End of quote

Children?  leave our children?  Parents?  show me where he said this as well. 

How do you reconcile that with "honor your mother and father?"  And those who don't care for their own are worse than an infidel?  

See this is where you're dangerous.  You're spouting off scripture all over the place without context.  There's context involved that must be adheared to.  A text taken out of context is nothing more than a pretext. 

When I read it this passage it was to "spread the good news", not the gospel. The good news was that Jesus had defeated death by rising from the dead, and in that he paved the way and made it acceptable to God for all mankind to do the same.
End of quote

that is the gospel.  The good news is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.  He lives and now we can live.  Maranatha! 

 

Reply #484 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting whisper2, reply 482
Few surely doesn't mean hundreds of thousands, even in Jesus's time that was an awful lot of people.
End of whisper2's quote

Yes, but there are about 6.5 billion people on the planet.  Put into perspective, half a million Christians would represent 0.0077% of the world's population.

Reply #485 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not just the "rich" man, who by the way was also a righteous man (which didn't help him at all with Jesus, for all his righteousness he still wasn't acceptable), but also of the "widows mite".  What makes you think that these are instructions for just the few?  And that you or anyone else is above taking them and that these instruction are not for all but the few?  The truth is.............they are for all who wish to follow him.  This is what makes you and those like you dangerous, this idea that somehow Jesus wasn't speaking to you or them.  I'd say that you are far more dangerous than I could ever be.  You take Jesus's word at your convenience, I take it as gospel, and definate instruction.  In your convenience you lead others astray.

Honoring one's mother and father does not mean that one can't leave them behind to be with Jesus.  Or don't you understand the meaning of the word "honor"?

No Paul is not a prophet. 

Reply #487 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes leave your children, or what is not clear about the fact that Jesus stated there "will be no husband and wife"?  Or Jesus's statement about who is and is not his brother or mother?  These rules apply to children as well, they are not an acception.  Have you no faith that god will care for them? 

Reply #488 from JoeUser Forums Top

Not just the "rich" man, who by the way was also a righteous man (which didn't help him at all with Jesus, for all his righteousness he still wasn't acceptable), but also of the "widows mite". What makes you think that these are instructions for just the few?
End of quote

you are quite right about the rich man.  Jesus met him where he was.  His money was his god and Jesus knew that.  The poor old widow gave all she had and is held up as an example of one who is the complete opposite of the rich young ruler.  She understood that everything is God's even the little she had. 

 Jesus example of her, commending her still is not a command that we all sell all we have and give to the poor.  We should all be willing if we're asked but not everyone is asked.   So I have to ask you, what makes you think we all have to sell all we have?  There are all sorts of good/bad examples in scripture. 

Reply #489 from JoeUser Forums Top

Yes leave your children, or what is not clear about the fact that Jesus stated there "will be no husband and wife"? Or Jesus's statement about who is and is not his brother or mother? These rules apply to children as well, they are not an acception. Have you no faith that god will care for them?
End of quote

you're taking things way out of context.  No husband or wife?  He's not talking about here but about hereafter. 

Reply #490 from JoeUser Forums Top

Titus 3:8-11

8This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

 9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.

Reply #491 from JoeUser Forums Top

[quote]Jesus met him where he was. His money was his god and Jesus knew that. The poor old widow gave all she had and is held up as an example of one who is the complete opposite of the rich young ruler. She understood that everything is God's even the little she had. [/quote

Many of us don't understand the real meaning behind both stories.  It was not that the young man's wealth was his god, for in truth he kept all the laws, which would have included worship at temple which means he acknowledged God as his God, it was that the young man didn't trust that the Lord God would provide for him.  Nor was it that the widow realized that everything belonged to God, but that she gave all she had because she trusted that the Lord God would provide for her needs.  For as Jesus said "render unto Caesar that which is Caeser's (material wealth) and unto God that which is Gods" (trust and self). 

There are many examples of the need to trust in the Lord God to provide, in the NT and the OT as well.  In Psalms, David finds favor in the eyes of the Lord when he sings "The Lord is my shepard, I shall not want......."  Those words are an expression of trust that the Lord will provide. Jesus's parable of the lillies in the field is another example of trusting in the Lord God to provide.  He spoke those words to his disciples and to the masses as well.  Obviously the message of the need for trust in the Lord God was meant for all not the few. 

The "Hereafter"?  Jesus said that "the kingdom of heaven is all around you".  What makes you think that it's in the "hereafter"?

Jythier, I assume that you are speaking to me so I say to you:  "Judge not, for as ye judge so shall ye be judged".  Quote me Jesus, or quote me nothing at all.  Titus doesn't mean anything to me.

 

Reply #492 from JoeUser Forums Top

Actually I was talking to KFC, reminding her to not bother with foolish controversies.  I know Titus means something to her.

Reply #494 from JoeUser Forums Top

[quote who="whisper2" comment="491"]

Quote me Jesus, or quote me nothing at all.  Titus doesn't mean anything to me. 
End of quote

This is rather foolish.  Why would the Bible include anything other than Jesus' words if they were the only ones that mattered?  Besides which, Jesus Himself quoted passages of Scripture from the Old Testament from time to time, so I think it is safe to say He doesn't agree with your view.

[quote who="whisper2" comment="491"]

Jythier, I assume that you are speaking to me so I say to you:  "Judge not, for as ye judge so shall ye be judged".
End of quote

Jythier quoted Scripture, so actually it is God doing the judging here.  Jythier simply brought it to your attention.

Reply #495 from JoeUser Forums Top

Hmm, the quote function broke.

Reply #496 from JoeUser Forums Top

This is rather foolish. Why would the Bible include anything other than Jesus' words if they were the only ones that mattered? Besides which, Jesus Himself quoted passages of Scripture from the Old Testament from time to time, so I think it is safe to say He doesn't agree with your view.
End of quote

Amen.    Yes, and I've already told him that even Peter wrote that Paul's writings were to be put up with the other scriptures.  Paul's many miracles and tribulations were recorded by Luke and since the rest of the Apostles accepted him as authoratative why shouldn't we? 

The "Hereafter"? Jesus said that "the kingdom of heaven is all around you". What makes you think that it's in the "hereafter"?
End of quote

You keep quoting scripture out of context.  It's hard not only to keep up with you but it seems to do me no good to explain these things because you are not accepting of scripture really.  You just want your ears tickled. 

Sorry but I'm not very good at that.  I'm more than willing to explain and teach because I believe that's where God has gifted me but I'm not so sure you're really interested in THE truth. 

The Kingdom of God is Christ.  He is the Kingdom.  The Kingdom was right in front of them.  It's not about where we worship or where we'll end up so much as it's about who we worship and who will be with us. 

Quote me Jesus, or quote me nothing at all. Titus doesn't mean anything to me.

End of quote

Jesus also said to not give that which is holy to the dogs because they will only trample upon it.  I believe that's where Jythier is coming from when he quoted Paul in the book of Titus. 

Jythier:  I did warn him once and I will count this as the second warning. 

 

 

Reply #497 from JoeUser Forums Top

I'm more concerned, KFC, with you wasting YOUR time on worthless, useless things. :)

Reply #498 from JoeUser Forums Top

It may be useless, but there is no way to know for sure until it's been done.

Reply #499 from JoeUser Forums Top

Why not? 

Because Jesus didn't.  Jesus did not choose Paul, and Paul was living while Jesus was living.  Oh, by the way........how did Peter write that Paul's writings were to be put up if Peter was as you were so quick and eager to point out earlier, an ignorant illiterate nobody?  Obviously he couldn't write a thing if he couldn't write at all.  And before you give me this scribe thing...........let me inform you of something, if you can't read you don't know if what you've said is written down as you dictate it.

Paul never followed in Jesus's footsteps, for him as for you, it just wasn't convenient, it required sacrifice and reliance on God.  None of which he could give.  No wonder you quote him more than Jesus, Jesus is just too hard.  Jesus demands too much.

Yes, Jesus quoted the OT, and your point is..........?  What?  That you prefer the word of men over the word of Jesus?  You'd be better off if you listen to the man that you call God, and not ordinary men like Paul.  Listening to them is like the blind leading the blind............you'll both fall in a hole.

Want my ears tickled?  You are something else altogether I must say.  Is that the standard flippant answer you give when you feel that your authority is threatened and you can't quote Jesus to prove your own point?   

Nothing is taken out of context, you simply don't like what Jesus says.  It's too demanding for you, far too inconvenient.  You and those like you couldn't possbily ever have to sacrifice anything, couldn't ever have to rely totally on God for everything, could you?  Those words must have been meant for someone else.  Well................they weren't.  They were meant for all, including you and those like you.  Don't take my word for it however, you'll find out for yourself quick enough.  Better yet, ask Jesus, not Paul mind you, not the bible, but Jesus.  You do remember him don't you?

Yes Jesus quoted the OT.................and your point is what?  Is or is not Jesus's word the last word on eveything?  If he's your God, then it must be, and if his word is not the last word, you're a bunch of liars, because he's not your God.

Reply #500 from JoeUser Forums Top

My point was that Jesus obviously considered the Old Testament to be authoritative, since He quoted it rather than corrected it - which flies in the face of your "only Jesus's words" theology.

Quoting whisper2, reply 499
It's too demanding for you, far too inconvenient.  You and those like you couldn't possbily ever have to sacrifice anything, couldn't ever have to rely totally on God for everything, could you?
End of whisper2's quote

You're really coming off like a self-righteous snob here, like the Pharisees, and you of all people should know how much Jesus liked their attitude.