Phase jump pathfinding is, at best, game-breakingly moronic.

from Stardock Forums

We've all been here - your fleet is getting decimated and you need to fall back now! Then you proceed to pull out your hair and scream at the computer as the ships partake in what is probably the stupidest, worst pathfinding I've ever seen in any game - ever. Yes, even Morrowind where enemies would get stuck on the other side of tables and swing at you wildly, because the pathfinding wasn't hurting ME like it does in Sins.

Let's say you hit the retreat button - behold as your ships all try to congregate into the same tiny spot in space, bouncing each other out of the way, and nobody ends up going anywhere. Instead of falling back to the MINIMUM part of the gravity well to jump, why are they all going to the same spot?

God help you if there's a capital ship you want to save - he'll stop, then begin the agonizingly slow process of turning 160 degrees to the side, moving three feet, then turning back to get out of the way of a trade ship, taking damage the entire time.

Then there's the part where some of your ships just do whatever they want. Half my fleet got split and slaughtered by pirates because one half decided to simply stop moving, while the rest ignored the 'Jump as Group' order and did whatever the fuck they felt like.

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2383/sinspathfind.jpg

There is one situation I didn't address there because I forgot - when multiple units are using the same jump point in close proximity, ideally the ones closest should move slightly further outside the gravity well than necessary - it takes but a moment and frees up space for other units behind them. The current behavior is to stop right on the edge, meaning there's lots of bouncing and jostling around.

Fix it please :(

28,841 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Erm, there is a very simple option to have you ships jump out ASAP: DON'T set them to 'group move' (the 3 green arrows). Problem solved.

Also, keep in mind that the jump angle around a phase lane is limited (45°?) So if your ships are far out, they HAVE TO move to the middle.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, I turn off group move if I need to retreat in a hurry.  Most of your ships are combat ineffective when they start turning to jump anyway, so there's no reason for them to hang around.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

i understood that when you press the retreat button your ships will ignore the move as a group command no matter what?

if you were simply telling them to move as normal, then yes, that would happen (moving stupidly) but pressing the button? maybe there is a problem here

in the meantime, i usually tell my caps to retreat and leave my frigates and cruisers to stall enemy ships... at the very least autocast abilities are soaked up and its easier to destroy a few ships while your caps get out.. after all, frigs are a dime a dozen no?

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting DeadlyShoe, reply 2
Yeah, I turn off group move if I need to retreat in a hurry.  Most of your ships are combat ineffective when they start turning to jump anyway, so there's no reason for them to hang around.
End of DeadlyShoe's quote

I just ran some retreating tests and it really doesn't make much of a difference - they still tend to clump together in predetermined 'zones' no matter how spread out the force is when I order them to retreat, with or without 'Move as group'.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I have to agree that I've always found the phase jumping pretty random - fleets do seem to choose some pretty random and long-winded exit routes.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

its not only retreating but in general, when i was playing the entrenchment beta, i would try and get my Ogrov's to jump in at the same time the fleet did... the Ogrov fleet rocked up like 1 minute or more after the main battle fleet jumped in because the ogrovs turn so damn slow that any attempt at making a formation is like watching grass grow, or, worse, a game of cricket!

even when placed within a fleet, anti-structure frigates would hold up the rest of the fleet by many many seconds, and while retreating, well, you can imagine what a pain in the ass that is

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I've had cases where I attempt to perform a star-to-star phase jump, only to have the fleet constantly refuse to take one phase jump in favour of 8 or so jumps through a wormhole.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I've had cases where I attempt to perform a star-to-star phase jump, only to have the fleet constantly refuse to take one phase jump in favour of 8 or so jumps through a wormhole.
End of quote

 

I saw this once....it was pretty bizarre.  I had the star jump tech and could jump to one star just fine, but the other had a wormhole going to it and my fleet, even when put in position at the star edge to jump, would turn around and fly back to the wormhole and make a wormhole jump.  I literally could not figure out any way to force a star to star jump to that star with the wormhole.  Only happened to me in one game, others dealth with wormholes ok.

 

As for regular pathfinding, I don't have too many problems with it, but it can be a little irritating trying to coax your ships through minefields now that Entrenchment is out.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I've had cases where I attempt to perform a star-to-star phase jump, only to have the fleet constantly refuse to take one phase jump in favour of 8 or so jumps through a wormhole.
End of quote

I think that is because the path finding is calculated by absolute time, not number of jumps. If you have the faster-phase-jump artifact it might be faster to use a detour through wormholes.

It should be fixed nonetheless, as well as all those fleet-movement-annoyances.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

I think that is because the path finding is calculated by absolute time, not number of jumps. If you have the faster-phase-jump artifact it might be faster to use a detour through wormholes.

It should be fixed nonetheless, as well as all those fleet-movement-annoyances.
End of quote

Nah, it is a bug.  The time I saw it, I was trying to force the star to star jump by lining my ships up at the edge of the star.  If they had jumped, they would have been in the other star in 10 seconds, but they instead chose to fly back to a planet 3 jumps away and make a wormhole jump, which took several minutes instead.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Cykur, reply 10

I think that is because the path finding is calculated by absolute time, not number of jumps. If you have the faster-phase-jump artifact it might be faster to use a detour through wormholes.

It should be fixed nonetheless, as well as all those fleet-movement-annoyances.
Nah, it is a bug.  The time I saw it, I was trying to force the star to star jump by lining my ships up at the edge of the star.  If they had jumped, they would have been in the other star in 10 seconds, but they instead chose to fly back to a planet 3 jumps away and make a wormhole jump, which took several minutes instead.
End of Cykur's quote

 

same happened to me

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Bravenue, reply 9

I think that is because the path finding is calculated by absolute time, not number of jumps. If you have the faster-phase-jump artifact it might be faster to use a detour through wormholes.
End of Bravenue's quote

Actually, I even had the Jump Drive Relic artifact (+50% interstellar Phase Jump speed) when that happened. Fleet still insisted on taking the wormhole.