ideas for new pirate ships

make the brute a salvaged Kol, i.e.: no beams on the front(replace with autocannons?), only has flakburst, no squadrons(make the launch bays look damaged?)

Pirates definitely wouldn't have carriers. They're too ragtag for that. I'm going to preemptively say they shouldn't have support cruisers either for the same reason (also, IC gave them a frigate with AM, but it has no abilities). The "Brute" should probably be a salvaged Akkan because it's probably the weakest DPS cap and a rich target with all the civilians in the dome. Very lore-based explanation, but I think that's the whole idea. Not that the pirates really need new ships, but I do think that sounds fun. Just more modeling, texturing, hardpointing, coding, etc. from IC's point of view though...

EDIT: Maybe they should have a boarding party-carrying ship. It could send out boarding parties at structures or frigates, have a %chance to succeed, and if it does the target would be scuttled. I know this mechanic has been discussed before extensively but I haven't read enough to see the conclusions. If it seems imbalanced, maybe only structures and very rare? Once again though, IC has no reason to do this.

well, mostly my ideas were ways for pirates to overcome the starbases and junk in entrenchment.  pirates seem worthless with starbases, and I thought this would help.  I do want to hear your ideas though.

Just wondering here, what niche does the cutthroat fill? it just seems like a stronger light frigate, or a weaker assault cruiser...am i missing something here?

and if im right, and the cutthroat doesnt really fill any niches, why dont we just outfit it with an ability or two to make that support cruiser you were talking about?

EDIT: ability suggestions for either support ships or the capital:

1. some sort of EMP/ion bolt or other disabling thing. This makes the most sense to me, since futuristic pirates would probably disable ships in order to board them and steal their booty.

2. instead of boarding parties, how about boarding grapples? the ship will fire the grappling lines onto the ship, which is then disabled and takes some damage over time until either the attached ship is destroyed or the ship fights off the boarders(time limit).  It sounds cool, and makes a lot of sense, but who knows how hard this would be to add into the game.

3. An embargo style ability that siphons off credits or something along those lines. (probably a capital ability)

4. some way to plant charges (like the timed explosives of the TEC scouts.) this could help the pirates take out structures they deem too dangerous for boarding or whatever.

IIRC The cutthroat has an ability which uses AM to steal credits from your empire. I think its somewhere in the neighborhood of a few hundred credits. Really annoying early game, but a little more "meh" as time goes on.

The only other thing I think pirates should have is some kind of capital ship, probably a salvaged Kol. The Kol should be modified in someway, such as looking slightly damaged and instead of having the frontal lasers on it, have something that fires a huge slug at enemey ships, such as a mass accelerator cannon(the mac gun from Halo.) Should give massive damage to enemey ships. Also, to make it more interesting, take away a good chunk of its armor away but also make it much faster than any TEC Kol could be. I also think it should have a survival instinct, such as when its health is down to about one half, it should retreat back to the pirate base, bringing any other pirate ships with is so that the pirates don't stay in a suicidal battle. Sorry, but I have just one more idea. The pirate Kol should have one very interesting abiliity that I thought of. It should be something like a strategic retreat, where it gathers all remaining pirate ships to leave the system, that fires a massive EMP pulse that doesn't disable ships or structures, but  screws up their sensors. Reduces the damage they can put out, and greatly effects their accuracy, reducing every ships and starbases accuracy to almost nothing for about sixty seconds. This ability should only be used when the pirates have lost about half their number. Can anybody tell what tey think of this idea? Please reply and tell me what you think about this idea. I really wnat to know other peoples opinions on this.

seems everyone wants pirates to be able to pull some godly desperate last trick out of their sleeves.

they are scum of the galaxy. they use salvaged ships. they do not have any kind of non-monetary backing from any nation.

Pirate capital ship, I know is being used in distant stars

I can see that!  And all kinds of nasty looking spike all over it! No beams, just auto cannons and the 3 cannon laser on the launch bays.  

REAVERS!!!!!!

It would be nice if Pirate ships got upgraded based on how much bounty the pirates get.  Say 1% boost to hull and weapon damage every 2-4 thousand credits.

What pirates need is a ship that diverts all income from extractors/refineries/trade ports within a certain distance around it(or an activated ability that targets one strucutre and lasts until the ship is destroyed).

pirate capitals would be great for making things more interesting mid-late game.  maybe make pirate capitals start to appear after the pirate bidding reaches a certain amount.  although, instead of a kol, i think it makes more sense for them to be dunovs or marzas (without missle barrage, not that the ai ever uses it well anyway).  the kols are newer ships built specifically for the vasari war, whereas the other tec capitals were converted civilian ships. i think its more likely the pirates would find some old dunov or marza hulls floating around.  

and i think i disagree about the pirates not getting strikecraft.  i think they should get bombers, but not fighters.  they wouldnt be interested in dogfights, just quickly intercepting fleeing larger ships, so maybe a pirate sova wouldnt be out of the question.

Have you tried the Distant Star Mod?

I don't think that Kols are out of the question either because even though they are new, there would still be floating Kol hulks out in space where the pirates might find it.  But maybe make it so the Kols don't come untill a Severe pirate raid level has been established or a total of x credits has been spent on bounty altogether (from all the empires) or x credits have been placed on player since beginning of game.  This would keep counting even if the credits on said player were depleted every once in a while. 

 Okay, just got to say one thing. Many times pirates have weapons that are better than the ones the goverment might be using. They steal everything they get, and many times what they get is good quality. It just varies on how good they might be. But in my opinion, the pirates would be prospering during this time, and would have enough money to improve their ships and weapons. And I still like my EMP pulse idea for the Pirate Capital ship

How about pirates that send raiding parties to neutral grav wells and steal income from trade ships?  That would be minty sweet. Another cruiser type maybe.

And I like the cap ship idea.  I like the idea of the heavily modded Akkan.  A mass accelerator for assaulting a planet or clearing a path for escape, a battering ram ability would also be in style, maybe a grappling hook that reels in and disables frigates that are too close and carries them off for salvage.  I mean, if I were a pirate in the siniverse and I had access to huge broken hulks, raw material, ingenuity and time but little money, bitch yeah that's what I'd want to do with my cap ship.

I'd agree with the 'scum of the galaxy' notion... but it can be useful to use such 'scum' to do a nation's dirty work with a lower chance of showing its hand.  Providing actual ships or access to bases would be rather blatant, but the odd bit of funding, technical data, intelligence et al might be useful.

If I were planning a rework, I'd want them to be more pirate-y and less periodic-suiciders -- in the current build, they'll blithely attack even an Advent desert planet with max'd tactical slots, a Transcendia, and a capital ship parked just to earn XP.  In other words, sneaky, theft-oriented hit-and-runners instead of attempting brazen assaults on warships and heavily defended systems.

- Nix the periodic timer motif.   Activity would be ongoing, although not necessarily of uniform intensity.

- Payment mostly pay-to-avoid-being-hit; pay-to-hit-someone-else could be offered.  In the latter case in particular they wouldn't necessarily follow through.  They're scum, after all... and they wouldn't warn the galaxy who to expect them.  Being self-centered scum, a wealthy, well-defended nation that is paying them off should be attacked much less often than the intended victim if the intended victim is substantially more economically interesting and less fearsome.

- Smaller craft strongly resembling civilian vessels (trade ships et al). In fact, give them a high probability of masquerading as civillian ships until they attack, and resuming some time after breaking contact.   Ship design -- emphasis on speed; possibly later on PJI immunity.  Ability to raid extractors, turning them neutral and seizing resources; ability to pillage resource asteroids and demolish those extractors.

- Ability to operate from 'neutral' worlds.  Hey, they've got money and they're not trying to overthrow the local government, unlike those fascist traders, religious maniacs, or alien slavers. 

- Primary targets -- civilian ships (getting value based on type/cargo), undefended or weakly worlds particularly asteroids (robbery/tribute, loyalty hit).  They should be avoiding anything resembling even-odds combat, since they want to die rich, not nobly and dramatically.

- Raiding labs to steal research points.

- Technological development for them would be somewhat limited, but some obvious paths would be --

   - better masquerades (possibly eventually to fooling mines?)

   - more speed

   - PJI immunity

   - more effective raiding parties (faster hits on facilities)

   - better intelligence gathering (as in visbility into other empires)

   - possibly, ability to temporarily disable tactical facilities (via raiding parties)

here is an idea to make pirates a threat in late game...

Instead of them sending 1 attack at 1 system, make it so if you are the target, Every system has a chance of recieving an attack. Base the percentage on threat level (maybe a waste considering late game it will be high, although it might help keep from being wiped early game) and something like system trade income, or tax rate or something..

And i am not saying make it like the TEC revolt research, where they just materialize, but have the various fleets launch from the pirate base, and rampage thier way to their various targets, and if they pass through an undefended system on the way, they trash that as well...not "just pass through" like they currently do. However, you would want to program the AI to not just blindly suicide either, bypass the heavily defended systems, either by going around, or running through if possible. Pirates don't fight fair fights, after all..

Something like this would make pirates more something to fear, instead of "Oh boy, pirates, where's my caps that need the xp?"

and two abilities the pirates need is a Embargo style Phase inhibitor, locking tradeships in system. and another that lets them ignore the effects of a SB when jumping out of system

Great thinking!

I'm surprised that no one has any ideas for new ships (or just aren't sharing), I'd like to hear you guys' opinion on what new ships would be cool

My idea for a new pirate ship is one that everyoen can build!  The ship registers as grey/neutral to every emprie that does not have shared ship vision with your empire!  The ships are used to attack enemy extractors and trade ports, liek raiders.  They have increased damage vs extractors and tradeports, and have an intecept liek abiltiy that works on tradeships!  Also have bonus damage vs Refineries as well!

I thought these ships would have ANTImedium weapons and Medium armor.  This would make them cobalt resilient, and strike craft resilient. But vulnerable to LRFs. They can also have secondary ability which will alow them to glich targeting of weapon platforms, meaning they can get within range of guass turrets, and not be fired upon for some time.

These ships would be great for attacking an econ player.  They should be able to raid effectively by survivng planetary defenses long enough tot ake out the extractors/tradeports and get out.  Maybe PJI infalliblity of scouts can affect them as well, that way they can get past PJI's to strike trade planets deep in enemy territory.  Low dps ensures they are not useful in combat, but high multiple means they get job done.  They should be able to take out cobalts pretty good in 2 to 1 ratio, meanign you attack with 4 ships and 2 cobalts are guarding, you will win without losign a ship.

These ships would also spice up diplomacy.  Since you an screw with people you are in ceasefire with.

have you tryed the 7 Deadly Sins mod? It has 5 pirate cap ships and new pirate crusers and frigates. Also has playable pirate faction!

sorry. double post

I like the 'grey ships' concept, that's sneaky....

Hopefully the pirates will be allowed to capture trade and refinery ships and refit them with scavenged weapons and emergency speed boosters, that's two new types of ships.  They need some cloak devices on the stock ships though.  They could immobilise and capture suitably damaged cap ships, that might make them more intimidating.

Also how about a black 'pirate agent' scout?  When you pay for an espionage mission it shows up at your capital, then gets a ping from the hostile faction target type and sets off to loiter in the appropriate randomly chosen area- you might have to help it, especially if it has to return with stolen data.

Another pirate speciality was shallow draft vessels- if there was a forbidden area near the planet in the gravwell, the pirates could be allowed to use it with their specially equipped ships.  They should get bonuses in storms and asteroid fields.

The pirates could use an interrupt ability as well- a limited version of magnetize could be fitted to their version of the refinery ship?

how about paying the pirates for a ship, like mercenaries or something. that way, you could obtain and control a pirate ship, but it would make more sense.

Pirate caps would be very interesting to see late game, also, with all the destroyed hulks floating around, not to mention the years that have passed since the war started, it would be thoroughly concievable to see pirateships that are more than just based upon the TEC ships. Also, the boarding party idea has been thrown around a lot, and it's a good one. All that would need to happen is take the domination ablility and give it to a vessel type ro two. perhaps a form of a pirate boarding ship, possible a Drone ship look alike?