Is this cheese, or just very clever?

from Stardock Forums
I've taken to leaving constructors hanging out around the AI's resource starbases. Every now and then, one of them get toasted in the course of a war, and I snatch up the resource.
In the game I'm playing, I had gotten tired of waiting and was sending dreadnoughts to Yor starbases to kill them. Once I was in position, I would strike. Before I get there, the Altarians (my friends) kill one of them.
So I snatch it up with my handy constructor and forward my ships to the next base.
As they are on their way (Huge map) I get to thinking... I don't REALLY want to go to war with the Yor, who trade with me, I just want to kill the starbase.
So I pop open a dialoge with the Altarians and sell them my dreadnought.
First turn, nothing. Second turn, it moves away from the starbase. Third tun, it moves toward it. Fourth turn, my on hand constructor grabs the freed up resource.
Hmm...
This is fun :)
Next, I sell a dreadnought to the Drengin to kill a Torian starbase that had been irritating me. However, I had overlooked the fact that the Drengin were way over there in the corner, and this starbase was out of their range.
Rats.
Anyway, I have a few more dreadnoughts in route to Arcean / Torian starbases within range of the Yor. We'll see what happens.
415 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Clever is my vote. Good job!

~SDC~
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
This is a well-known cheese. I forgot who said about it first.

~SDC~
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
Have I got a deal for YOU! Slightly used dread, only piloted once on a test drive to its current space readiness testing range near the Drengin border. 500 creds gets you this baby TODAY! Can't afford that? Why, that's not a problem! I happen to be running a special sale this weekend only. Low rate financing available. All you need is 50 creds down and 50 more for 3 months! Can you believe that? I must be insane!! This weekend only. Come on down!

Yes, it can work well, but in 1.03A it could cause a bug. So be careful if you got that version. I can't really call it cheese, though. The AI sometimes helps us poor humans out in a lopsided war by giving us free ships. Unfortunately, those freebies are not pre-positioned near prime targets.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Maybe the AI should wait for its own constructor to
arrive at the base and grab the resource for itself.
It might be difficult for the AI to keep it though because it is fighting a war...
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree with Markus. AI should try to grab the resource. (Or threaten the heck out of you for snaffling "their" resource.)
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I think that would be very, very hard to do.
It's not too cheesey - both sides are benefiting from the deal. The only problem is that the computer can't do this tactic (at least as far as I am aware).
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree with Markus. AI should try to grab the resource. (Or threaten the heck out of you for snaffling "their" resource.)
End of quote


Small problem. How does the computer know that it is his resource?
For example: Same system as one of his planets, within his zone of influence , 5 steps away from one of his mayor battleships, 10 turns for a constructor from his nearest starbase...

Any suggestions?

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
For even more cheese, use an anti-matter missile instead of a dreadnought. That way, if the missile is used to hit the base (and you can surround the missile and base with your own vessels to force it to, if the AI wants to use it at all) it can't be used against you later.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
I've been using this strategy regularly for a long time. I don't concider it cheesy in the least, rather I consider an effective work around to the limited diplomatic options.

Meaning: What I REALLY want to do is cut a deal with the Arceans where by I agree to provide lend lease aid to their war effort with the Drengins, but only if they they make targeting a particular resource base a top priority. Agreements like this (and far more complex ones) are par for the course in face to face games like Diplomacy, but are beyond the scope of the Diplo interface in most computer games including Gal Civ.

Twirlip's use of AMMs instead of ships is a great enhancement because not only are the ships 1 shots but it takes less of them to ensure a kill.

I do think that AIs should get a sense of ownership. If a resource is theirs and later someone else takes it, the relationship with the party who takes it should decline. Ownership flags should be triggered for any resource or planet the AI currently owns or one that they attack.

I THINK there is a routine like this for planets.
Recently I had a large fleet parked near a minor power (on one of my resource starbases). I watched as both the Drengin and Arceans sent ship after ship against the minor slowly whittling away its garrison, and then transport after transport which failed but reduced the planet's population.

With 2 20+ planets with less than 5 billion people on them sitting 3 spaces away from my fleet I couldn't resist. I landed and took the planet my self...total vultureage.

The Drengins, who I'd previously been Warm with, promptly begain attacking me without any sort of declaration of war message or attempt to extort. They just attacked...and are currently kicking my ass.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Valamir, I think that is a bug you are describing - the AI gives orders to it's ships to attack the planet, but if the planet changes ownership, the orders don't change and it attacks the planet anyways which causes it to go to war with you. To fix this I put a ship right in front of the planet, on the path of the AI ships. If the AI really meant to attack me, it would just go around the ship and attack anyways. But it doesn't, it instead just sits there for several turns before turning around. That's why I think it's just a bug where the ship orders don't get updated.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
There's a workaround for the planet vulterage, as you cleverly put it. Gift the AI with a Treaty of Attack against your victim. He'll think you're doing him a favor. :)

Also, another "cheese" tactic (I don't think it is): usually blockading resources/planets isn't necessary. All you need to do is slow the AI down while you race your own Constructor/Colony at it. If you put just 3 ships in his way, you slow down his ship by a square every turn. If you have 4 (sometimes 5), you slow him by 2. I have won many races this way. My last race I won with the help of a Corvette, Scout, and a Freighter. :)

Finally, about the AI owning resources: I think that makes sense. What I'd do is, if the starbase was recently destroyed (<10 turns ago), the AI thinks he owns it. UNLESS there's an enemy constructor within sensor range of the former starbase. That nullifies it. The AI would rather you take it than the guy he's at war with.