[CHEESE] Lord Erebus' Mist

theres a big weakness in that ability. u cant move. dps isnt so good againt demigods and u cant keep it forever even at late game it isnt very easy. Only good use is at very late game as u said, when u have purchused giants and go in the way  that creeps go, u can kill them and let ur creeps push forward. That seems to be the best strategy for that skill but it isnt very dangerous for other things

also thats erebus master of escape and immortality

I'v played a couple of games with erebus and love the mist ability. With my item build I am able to regen full health while in mist mode and at the same time deny kills.

As much as I like it, I agree that it needs a nerf. A short cast time may do the trick but a mana cost would make the ability useless ealy on.

As much as I do love it, it is fairly easy early on to get this going and be pretty much invincible.  Now the thing is though, you can't really do much like take out buildings and stuff with this, so the games do seem to drag on a bit and give the other god-wannabe a chance to catch up.

Still doesn't change the fact that you are practically invincible after a mere 3500 gold or so.

Of course people are adjusting and I noticed that the Torchbearer (Ice) has a great counter with his cooldown affecting ability.

Mist is only useful for the invulnerability, the DPS is terrible. Its much better than Oak's shield, it has no time limit (at high levels with mana regen items) a much lower cooldown and at later levels it acts as a full heal. The only negative is not being able to attack or move. Since shield is a defensive mechanism, rather than offensive, that isn't so much of an issue. The problem is, if you remove the invulnerability it becomes useless. Alternatives which would still make it useful would be to either:

i) remove the heal regen (so you exit mist with the same HP as you entered)

ii) make erebus vulnerable to AoE damage spells while in mist (spells, not skills - ie hammer slam shouldn't effect it (how do you hammer slam mist) but fire AoEs should)

iii) make erebus vulnerable to AoE interrupts (to knock him out of mist)

iv) as suggested earlier, allow DGs with truesight items to hit him. However, unless the price of these items increased, this would make mist useless.

These all keep mist useful, without giving erebus a 1 click invulnerability button for whenever he's low on health.

idea:

How about a coffin spawns ontop of the mist and if you destroy the coffin erebus is forced to fight again. Coffin HP increases with levels.

The Lord has a disadvantage when in Myst there is no support for the team and he can't move.

By playing against good players, Myst is useless without support. Just wait until the Lord comes out of Myst and kill him.

I disagree with the general idea here. Erebus seems skewed toward grunts in a major way, and Mist is perfect for this function...yes in later levels he can stay there for a pretty long time, but balance that out with the almost complete lack of siege functions, and the 'can't move or get support', and the fact that once in mist, the enemy team can all line up thier shots and wait since they know where your going to be.....I think it's pretty well done. Erebus with a mist nerf really would be the weakest of all the demigods, he just doesnt hold up to the variety and dps of any of the others without it. QoT is currently way underpowered but Erebus is on the edge, nerfing mist would push him over into uselessness.

*edit* perhaps an item, for all demigods, with AOE null field that'd make demigod skills not work at all in the bubble for a time. That'd pop Erebus out of mist, or UB out of rage, or prevent further Compost adds etc. Dunno...but I do like the mist.

I'm in the same player group as Kayato (the main Erebus player among us)

Erebus currently has great survavibility and is safer than most when retreating. But mist can be somewhat of a trap, and I've found myself waiting to slam the vampire face just on the mist border, in more than an occasion.Not to mention a muist relying vampire don't have much of an impact on the game. His army can be dispatched in the meanwhile, you can drink potions/use trinket/invoque your minions/use light tower/mines while waiting for the return of Erebus. He can only gain HP and loose mana.

BUT... since it allows to reset the cooldown of bat swarm/wand of speed/warp stone, it can be a very powerful evasion tactic. Best tactic remains laying shrapnel mines under his feets. Maybe the cooldowns should be halted while in mist form. Or at least increase the mist cooldown itself up to 20s.

The mana pool may be the real issue, with most demigods. It's not too difficult to get enough mana to not think anymore about it at later stages. Helps to make the game more dynamic but is a bit too powerful with short CD actions like mist and bat swarm.

In 2vs2, gameplay resume to 2vs1, when player abuse of myst.

Well truesight also makes Regulus' mines useless, at least in a surprise/trapping scenario.  You can now get the favor item which gives truesight as well as purchasing the Revelation Totem.

You can't wait him out - because he can simply chill there until Bat Swarm is up and so he comes out of Mist with full health and can swarm away - and all that time you're sitting there waiting for him other demigods are pushing on other fronts (depending on the map.)

The damage per second is not on the level of TB's Circle of Fire - but it is enough to kill creeps and to out-damage your regen on most of the lighter heroes.

My biggest argument against it is that he never has to retreat to heal.  There is an item which gives 5 seconds of invulnerability - but I played a game with Erebus where he would sit there for 20-30 seconds or more.  If your goal is to push and outpush the enemy as well as out-level them, Mist is for you.  More experience, war rank.

I'm not saying every Demigod should be able to buy a single item to counter an entire important branch in the skill tree, but there needs to be some counter for it.  Rock, Scissors, Paper and all that, you know?  Maybe the combination of truesight and another ability (an interrupt, purge, stun, etc.)  You don't want to make the ability useless, but you don't want to have no counter for it either.  Maybe it is something as simple as increasing the mana cost at higher levels...or making the cost a % of mana so that there is always a maximum duration, regardless of your ridiculous mana pool.

Maybe setting up a maximum duration indeed. I also used that item which granted invulnerability and 5s is kinda short. Like I said, maybe "freezing" Cooldowns in mist mode would render it less powerful.

Freeze the cooldown while in mist form.  Nuff said.....  That'd fix the cheese and keep the ability viable.

you dont nessicarily gain much experiance while in mistform tho not in the beginning anyways

also you can really kill demigods in mistform

and since dg kills = cash just have one guy camp him while eveyone else picks off the other dg and gets enough cash to out team upgrade them

I like a suggestion someone had about what to do with mist. The mist disables regeneration. Mana or health but probably not both. This adds a kind of limit to what you can do as far as hiding with mist to protect yourself from a near death situation, because they can camp you and there are limited ( but possible) escape options as your mana goes down constantly with your cooldowns.

Mist probably needs another rework.  The self damage is too low at level 1 making it an incredible defensive skill.  The skills in this game follow the pattern that as you level cost goes up, but damage also goes up.  Mist is a problem because whatever damage is done to the enemies is also done to Erebus.  This makes increasing the damage a disadvantage and you want the damage just high enough.

I think the base self-damage needs to be higher to start with and never go up.  I would go with Erebus always takes 75 per tick, but deals 50/level/tick.  A max duration on mist form could be useful also.  The problem is currently staying in a level 1 mist form doesn't have a lot of cost associated with it, like it used to.  This converts the skill into a defensive skill that you never want to level.  An increasing AoE is another option.

Level 1:75 self, 50 AoE, 75 mana, 4 second max

Level 2: 75 self, 100 AoE, 95 mana, 7 second max

Level 3: 75 self, 150 AoE, 115 mana, 10 second max

Level 4: 75 self, 200 AoE, 135 mana, 13 second max

Mist doesn't damage erebus anymore (it did in Beta 2). Bringing back the self damage as well as a mana cost would just remove its only viable use: avoiding damage (usually when close to death). With the DPS at 200, it would be reasonably useful against creeps, but still useless at damaging demigods, and so noone would use it (look at the complaints about ring of fire). Also, bringing back the self damage gives erebus a suicide option, and thus allows him to die without giving gold to the enemy; while that in itself would be fairly useful, a simpler option would be to give erebus a suicide button.

I disagree completely with the notion that Mist Form is imbalanced. Essentially Mist Form does what almost any other Demigod`s ability does amongst Minions - just more slowly. Rook, Queen Of Thorns, TorchBearer all have area of effect attacks that instantly annihilate Minions. Encounter Minions? Tactic #1: walk amongst them, tap area-of-effect ability. Rook has a further ability to deliver nightmarish damage on a direct hit, even to a Demigod. Lord Erebus` ability makes him invulnerable, sure, but he is immobile. It drains energy at a respectable rate, and the damage necessary to slay Minions is delivered over time - it is not instantaneous like every other Demigod`s ability (excepting perhaps the Unclean Beast`s Plague, which is a secondary rather than a primary attribute).

I like it as is.

Suicide should be a code fix, the self damage keeps mist form balanced.  Instead of avoiding all damage you decide to take X damage instead of potentially greater damage.

I`m not sure I would see a use to the ability if I took damage while using it... that didn`t really work before, and I don`t think it would work now.

If ooze did only aoe damage, I wouldn't use it. But since it slows down attack speed as well...

Anyway, the biggest issue with mist is taking the time to reset bat swarm CD (or any useful item) , imho. Though, playing an always escaping DG doesn't grant real tactical advantage. At least when playing in team versus.

I did a bit of testing.  Now, I don't really think it's broken.  At least not all that bad.  The lack of mobility is a HUGE disadvantage to the skill.  You have to be quick on the draw to get away from a seasoned player that's camping you.  Now, a few small tweaks might be needed, like increasing the mana drain.  That would keep you form being able to sit there in mist form indefinately.  As the level goes up, the mana drain should go up a little more.  Leave the damage as it is.  That would fix it for good, in my opinion. 

I say give it a 1-minute length before it goes away, that way you can't just chill out in player's near-spawn areas and rack up damage, or just to be annoying.

I'm not sure why people think that sitting indefinitely in mist form is a bad thing for the game.  If I can play decoy for my team by keeping other people busy doing nothing while they wait for me to leave mist form... isn't that a really good tactic? And it has nothing to do with armor or damage or run speed.

Someone already mentioned laying traps at the center of the mist field.  That's one viable counter-measure that seems more unfair than the mist form itself.  It'd be like laying traps at a point where you know people have to teleport into.  Ouch.