Economy - Production & Counter Espionage Centre

Approval does not affect your tax revenue, merely your population growth rate.

In my games, I have seen a decrease in taxation effectiveness with a higher tax rate (for instance, 100% taxes is not twice as much as 50% taxes), but I've never seen anyone else complain about or mention this so it's entirely possible I've somehow bugged my game.  I've seen this as long as I can remember, though.

There is an additional function in the taxation formula-it is the square root of your population (in millions), which is then multiplied by some constant (~20ish, was higher in DA IIRC and definitely higher in DL).  But the wiki details that as well.

For what it's worth, the game doesn't care about your net income.  All that affects is how much you can actually afford to do-the economic component of score is determined entirely from gross income.

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On production, you are totally, completely, utterly getting the wrong idea.  It's not a percent of your economy-it's a percent of your buildings.

It doesn't matter if your income is 500BC or 5000BC, if you have 3 labs at 6 research each (and ignoring the initial colony to make things simple), at 100% funding and 100% research, you can have a maximum of 18 research (before bonuses but let's not go there yet).

In the above example, with 4x6 industry factories and 3x6 research labs, with your production slider (I believe that's what you're referring to) at 50%, you can have a maximum of 12 (50% of 24) industry or 9 (50% of 18) research.

If your sliders are then 33/33/33 (I'm neglecting the /34 for simplicity's sake), with the above mentioned 50% production slider, then we get 24*0.5*0.33 or 4 military and 24*0.5*0.33 = 4 social in addition to our 18*0.5*0.33 = 3 research.

You do have part of the right idea-you do have to fund them.  But that's where the overall production slider comes in-so you can turn your production down or off to not go into debt...even though it will slow down your progress.

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That's an issue if you're playing the DL campaign from anything but DL.  It should be largely nullified in DA/TA 2.x with the revamped spying system, but it's still a concern.

Yes, the counter espionage center is only a preventative measure-it won't remove any active spies.  You have to build it before the enemy gets their spies in gear.

Just training spies, preventing them from infiltrating in the first place, and killing the offending civ, as you've noticed.

You can read that two ways.  The first is that it isn't doing anything, which is fine, as that's the net effect.  But the way the game seems to read it is that firstly my factory provides 6 industry and secondly due to me factory being spied upon it provides -6 industry...which balances out to not providing any bonus.

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Thanks for changing it...if you don't set the text color, it'll show up black in the editor and white in the forums (here, at least, as white on black is the theme).  An easy way to get it to strip the font color (among other things) is to paste it into notepad, and especially if you're using Word or an equivalent program, you probably want to do that first before pasting here.

Just some more information on espionage can be found over in my post trying to flesh out the ins/outs of this:

https://forums.galciv2.com/316263

Don't be too worried about if the slider system doesn't make much sense. The devs tried to replace it with something else (something involving population I think), but what they tried proved to be too complex to be any fun in their eyes.

Think of things this way, you get a number of people to run your factories and labs. Generally, its enough to keep your production of either your factories at 100%, or your labs at 100%, or somewhere inbetween. Because factories can use their output to develop your planets, or build your ships, you have to split your factory output between the 2.

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Anyways, welcome to the community. If you get around to playing TA, you might want to read the TA 101 guide. I think its a pretty good guide (largely because I wrote it /joke) and it should help you get started playing the simple civs quickly and complex civs with minimal trouble.

TA 101

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses and the warm welcome. 

Its not the first time I'm completely and utterly wrong, LOL, so thanks for clearing that up.

So is there a relatively simple relationship between how much production costs in BCs versus its production output?

And yes, I had typed my post up in Word and pasted it in, so it must have registered as a black font during that process, so thanks for the tip there.

I haven't tried the other chapters yet, but will check them out.  I wasn't sure if all the changes from later chapters had been incorporated into the earlier ones, so sounds like they haven't been.

I'll check out that espionage post too.

Thanks again,

Paul

The way you've phrased that question combined with your previous post makes me wonder what you're asking.

If I have 100 research on a planet and have 100% funding, also set at 100% research, bonuses aside (planetary improvements gives 10% to research, moon(s) give 10%, nano recorders give 10%, hyper computers give 20%, mining starbases give up to 39%, etc), I will get 100 research from that planet.  It will also cost me 100BC for that research.  I'll have other expenses, namely the maintenance for my buildings, but that's not directly relevant at this stage of the game.

Since half of the bonus that you get is free, if I have a 10% bonus I'm now getting 110 research, but I'm only paying 105BC for it.  This will show up in domestic stats as 100BC in research and 5BC in bonus production/research (unfortunately the bonus section is not split into production and research separately).

This is entirely regardless of what my income is, whether it's 500BC, 5000BC, or -5000BC.  So long as I stay above -500BC total cash on hand, my production and research will continue to operate.

If you're asking for improvement cost and maintenance versus how much the improvement nets you in production/research, I'm afraid that's not simple at all.

I was going to say no, but after some thought, I'll say yes. The reason being is many factories and research labs progress in such a way that they become cost ineffecient. They may trick you by becoming cost efficient for a while before becoming inefficient very quickly.

For instance (using ver 2-02), in TA if we were to start with the "Traditional Factory" we would have a maintaince cost of 3, and an output of 4 (nearly 1 point of maintaince per 1 point of output). Follow it to "Manufacturing Centers" and you might notice that each generation increased its maintiance by 1, and its output by 2. At the manufacturing centers stage, we have a maintaince of 6, and an output of 10 (giving us nearly 1 point of maintaince per every 2 points of output).

However, the tricky part is when we move to "Industrial Sectors". The maintaince cost jumps by 4, while the output increases by 2 (the build time also jumps from 150 to 400). The new stats is 10 maintiance, 12 output (a worse efficiency ratio than what we had with the "Traditional Factory").

Many other kinds of planet improvements have different tricks, so the only way to be sure is to check the numbers for yourself. Fortunately, economic planet improvements seem to be largely immune to this practice.

@Sole Soul, that's all I was getting at, is it 1 BC per 1 Research point, if everything is at 100% as you've said.

@Divine Wrath, ok, that makes sense too.

Now, my last challenge, how to stop my brain going "just one more turn" when its 3am in the morning?

Cheers,

Paul

Hrm, you could rig something to your chair that any mouse clicks from 3am to 7am would lead to an electric shock.  But you could then circumvent that by standing for those 4 hours or swapping chairs.  Perhpas set the circuit your computer is on on a passworded timer and button-mash the password so that you don't know it to override it.

HMmm  not sure why you would want to stop your brain from doing that. Your brain will shut down your consciousness when the time is right.  And when it allows you control again, just click "turn" and continue. 

Or,,,, get married and you will have an Auto-game-off alarm.

Hah hah hah!!

I've already got an "auto-game off alarm", but she falls asleep relatively early and doesn't work that well.  

Of course, I do get asked what time I went to bed last night, "um, er, 12 o'clock, honest!!!"   

I think she's onto me though, the bags under my eyes are getting bigger and bigger every day...!

Hopefully she won't read the electric chair suggestion or I'm sure she'll install one - with her own remote control for it!!