Of Twilight and Enjoyment...

[rant]

I like TA.  I really do.  But the changes it brings are harder for me to get used to than those from DL to DA-and even after I got DA, I was still playing primarily DL games for several months.  In the end, the super abilities sold me, and I have to say I actually like the DA spy system BETTER, although I appear to be in the minority.

Part of the problem with TA is I can't really find a tech tree I like.  Part of the problem is that every tech tree has something "wrong" with it, or "missing" from it...with the notable exception of the Terran tree.  Now, admittedly, I only perceive things this way because it is the tree that I am used to, but the few things that the other trees get do not seem to be worth what you wind up losing.

Some races lose a few invasion tactics (and with tidal disruption being as GOOD as it is in TA, it's ideal to have a race with native access to it), some races lose adv troop mod (!), Thalans lose farms, some races lose counter espionage tech (I don't -always- use it, but it's frequent enough that I couldn't live without it), some races lose governments, some races lose the old ethical techs, some races lose the spin control center, some races lose engines...the list goes on.  Incidentally, it occurred to me that the Arcean tree + Super Isolationist might work even BETTER than the Arcean tree with Super Warrior.

The Iconians gain 100% repair and the best HP module in the game.  The Arceans gain a cheaper constructor, and weather control zenith.  The Drath and Korx both gain war profiteering, in a way.  I can't find anything particularly /good/ (pun intended) about the Altarian tree, although apart from losing out on the traditional neutral/good/evil techs there isn't that much lost, either.  The Yor can field higher happier populations as well as take preventive measures against their versions of the virus and plague.  The Torians have a number of techs granting additional research, as well as some interesting and useful starter buildings.  The Thalans gain a full set of ethical techs.  The Krynn and the Korath both gain influence, in their own way.  The Drengin don't really gain anything apart from soldiering and weapons, both minimal-unless you count minisoldiers-but they're less disabled than their brethren.

But the Terrans gain a +1 ship speed bonus improvement on turn 1, fleet warp bubbles (all 3 levels), stellar folder, the second best and most reliable HP module, more HP bonuses (which some races don't even get as many as they had previously), sensor arrays (okay, you're right, who uses those?), and FIVE Atlas modules.  Also, I'm not 100% positive, but I believe their weapons techs are generally cheaper, with the possible exception of the Drengin and/or Korath.

[While I'm on this subject I'd like to rant about the decreased weapons costs in TA.  In DA it took ~49k RP to reach doom ray, something like ~66k to reach black hole guns, and ~76k, give or take, to reach BHEs.  In TA, there's nothing over 40k (probably closer to 35k) in almost any if not all trees, and the Terrans for example can max missiles in 22,500 RP base (before factoring in galaxy size, planets, and tech speeds).  Did I forget to add that missiles are now generally the cheapest, while still being the most powerful (except on tiny/small hulls, where they're simply not bad)?  Due to this, psionic beam is now completely useless in virtually every tree, while psionic missile has essentially taken its place as the goto weapon for evil users.  Nano ripper is more worthwhile than psionic shredder given their research costs-for the few races who actually still have it in their tree.

To summarize this rant within a rant, I have issues with weapons being this <censored> cheap.]

Not to mention they don't lose tidal disruption, mass drivers, adv troop mod, farms, CE tech, SCC, governments, ethical techs, engines, or, well, pretty much ANYTHING else (except minisoldiers).  The only things they lose out on are those things the new trees bring to the table.

While the Iconian +100% repair is powerful, people seem to forget that micro repair bots grants 20%, and you can select up to 40% at the customization screen for a mere 2 points (1 point for 20%), not to mention the fact that generally anomalies will give you between an additional 5 and 15%.  Granted, 60-75% is not /as good/ as 100%, but it's certainly better than +0%.  And God forbid you try that with the Iconians-175% repair is brutal.


My problem is twofold-or perhaps three.  One, I can't find a convincing reason to play a tech tree OTHER than Terran.  Even Minor Race, while an option, due to losing out on the innovation complex the Terrans now get simply is not as powerful-particularly in the early game rush when speed matters.  But yet I don't WANT to play with the Terran tech tree.

In addition, as many good things as TA brings, even without accounting for the racial tech trees, playing TA with the Terran tech tree doesn't feel different enough from playing DA to justify it.

[/rant]

 

Thanks for reading all that...or skimming to the bottom, that works too.  :)

So with all that I've outlined, and yet much of it being obvious, does anyone have any suggestions for improving my enjoyability factor in TA?  Note: Turning on tech trading is not a valid solution...tech trading in TA feels like cheating to me.

As an addendum: When you guys (Stardock) do make GCIII, please A. put a little more thought into making the tech trees balanced and B. launch it with racial tech trees instead of letting some of us get used to a "default" one first.  Thanks.

3,594 views 4 replies
Reply #1 Top

You have to be open to running the race as the Dev. saw that race's characteristics and style of play. That would be like trying to run the Drengin as 'loving and caring,'  <3     'tree hugging,'   O:)     'quite friendly'   :smitten:     race of peaceniks!!! Not gonna happen.

Reply #2 Top

I played TA Thalans when the hyperion matrix didn't improve your planet quality.  When they didn't have battle stations and couldn't have starbases with weapons.  When colonies still only had 6B max pop by default.

I've been in on TA since late beta 2/early beta 3.  (For the record, it was kind of crashy then, which is only one reason why all of these things haven't come up before.)  I'm open to playing the races as the devs intended them to be played, but some of the things that the devs have done don't make any sense whatsoever.

The lack of adv troop mod in the Iconian and Yor tech trees only fails to make sense, at least for the Yor, and probably for the Iconians.  The Arcean lack of engines is not made up for by their tech speed bonuses, not even with their adv navigation centers, and the default Arcean race has a minus to speed in addition to this.  Given that any other race can just pile on an engine or three and be anywhere from 2-5x as fast, they essentially lose the first strike super ability that their engineless tree tends to revolve around in the first place.

Now if they made it so a ship could only have one engine, then it would work, but that is most probably outside the scope of a GCII addon or expansion, not to mention that all engine techs and components would need to be revalued, although I hope and pray fervently that it makes it into GCIII.  In addition, it appears that the majority of the forum that has commented on it actually thinks more engines on larger ships is more realistic, which is honestly just plain stupid.  When considering a starship versus a shuttlecraft, maybe, but none of the ships in GCII, even tiny hulls, really, are that far down the hierarchy.

There's even a tree or two that has majesty but not total majesty, and therefore does not get the SCC, which would seem to be an oversight in one direction or the other.

The problem is that the trees are only remotely balanced if you don't include the Terran tree.

 

And, for the record, I've played the Drengin as treehuggers.  It's not that hard.

-

I want to enjoy playing TA.  But at this point the only way to do that appears to be to no longer play to win.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting Xrati, reply 3
Wow! Tree huggin Drengin, What a rush!!!  
End of Xrati's quote

Cool, that's really far out... groovy. :hot:

I hope they don't bogart those slave pits... man, what a bummer that would be. :-|

Peace!