Probable OP of capital anti fighter abilties in late game

No.

So; massed strikecraft can easily die from that ability?


NERF I SAY THAT ISN"T RIGHT

It sounds like it might be a valid point, but isn't it a bit too theoretical? Has anyone actually seen a huge carrier fleet fight multiple Akkans where they used this ability? Has it caused giant swings in many of the games they play that seem imbalanced?

I've never seen such a situation, I have seen a very large number of Strikecraft run into a decent number of Flaks in a mixed fleet; the outcome was slaughter, in case anyone cares. The strikecraft got one capital in two attack runs, but after that their numbers were so severely depleted that they had little effect on the battle (I had a Halycon with Telekinetic Push in the battle, but it was turned on Autocast and apparently caught very few fighters, I didn't even notice it's effect).

On paper the area of effect anti-fighter abilities might seen very powerful, but really I don't know if anyone has a ton of experience in game breaking battles with them to say so. And making changes based on that would be a bad idea (especially with how questionable the use of many capital, and how easily it is to kill them by the time they get their abilities). Ultimately too, the range of these abilities, last I checked, isn't that impressive, especially due to the way Strikecraft move in battle in and out of the effective range. What power it does have, I think they deserve, it sounds like a smart way to deal with someone relying on massing one unit.

I can only really comment on the Guardian and the Subverter, since I have seen these units in action a decent amount.

The Guardian's Repel ability is fairly strong (under the right circumstances) but is far from overpowered I think mostly because although you from attacking them (except with LRMs) they cannot attack you (save with Strikecraft which are very cheaply nullified by flak, or with their Illuminators, which have the worst range and can be beaten by your LRMs). Situationally useful, and neat to have (with flak and carriers it can be a pain to kill) but not exactly a game breaker.

Subverter's Distortion Field attack I have seen in a few situations, and it does trouble me at times. The size of the area it can impact can make it scary good, particularly against an Advent fleet that is clustered (can essentially force them to use Guardians Repel to keep the Subverters away until Strikecraft can hopefully neutralize them). Guardian's Repulsion may be situationally useful, but who doesn't want an area of effect attack that will cripple all of the ships in it?

So that's my take. Magenetize Hull and the other Anti-Fighter capital abilities I really haven't seen employed with much effectiveness in games, so changing them based on theory doesn't sound so great (especially since the true nemesis of Strikecraft are the dirt cheap flaks). Guardian's Repel can be useful in some situations to the Advent, but since at best it makes it so neither side can attack one another (although more often LRMs will just put the pain into the Guardians from outside the effect) it doesn't seem like a big deal. Subverter's Distortion Field seens like it may be a bit too powerful compared to the others due to it's area of attack and how easily a single Subverter can disable significant portions of a fleet, but I think it needs closer examination.

I now its theoretical but that why i said probably. i dont exspect this thread to find a answer to it. Its rather could gimme some ideas anyway.
Someone should lab test it, i would if i could.

I had 25 strike craft squads in smaller games, mostly bombers. Combined with illums and iconus.

Say you send them all to attack a desolator with disable strikecraft. The opponent times it right and can acutally disable 25 squads for 15 sec at the same time/ or long on higher levels. Just make 25 to 40 and you see the scaling of this ability.
I would be certainly able to do and abuse this.

Its the general idea that abilities which scale this way can cause these problems. ESPECIALLY in a game where units can stack on top of each other. ( Fighters don't really stack but they occupy very little space thus you can cram ALOT into the same space )

Lemme add : they dont directly die but you could damage massed strike craft heavyly and repetion would kill em off, its just that the effect scales.

example: avdvent strike craft squad = 7 units. lets say telekinetic push does 20 damage per unit. 7x20 damage.
tec have less fighters in the squad and vsarai even less. thus they are less effected.

I could be wrong here and the damage is actually just 20 per squad and then spread out evenly to the units but i really don't know. I believe strike craft are treated individually.


if you hit 10 squads in range of the ability its 10 times as much damages the ability does compared to one squad.
if you hit 20 squads its 20x
30 30 times.

it scales.

Advent bombers have 75 hit points each and 1 armor. Should be equal to 78.75 hitpoints
A telekintic push on level 1 does around 20 damage i think. 4 pushes times right could wreak havoc on the strike craft fleet.

@ redmaw : "sound like a smart way of dealing with someone having alot of strikecraft"

Well that kinda not really the thing you want, how about a adding a ability that scales like this one and let if affect normal ships. Like killing 40 enforcers with two or three caps.

I think you should not be able to unhinge a big fleet by just a smart though. Everyone can learn that idea and learn to apply it and in the end the "big fleet" becomes obsolte.

I dont want strikecraft become obsolete.

Something could happen that might cause an imbalance if someone does it, but they mysteriously haven't done it ever. The best time to post a thread.

So diversify you attack force, dont use all strikecraft?

Thats like say im going to use an army of mounted guys on horses against tanks, instead of getting my own tanks!

Actually the horses to tanks comparison is a bit extreme IMO,

Think of it more as mounted cavalry vs. pikemen

It's the exact battle between one force and something designed to counter it, the only way the cavalry will win other than sheer numbers and brute force would be to diversify their forces....

trying to kill several of these caps with only strike craft is like trying to ram a mounted cavalry unit straight into a nice wall of pikemen

At least, that's the way I think about it... I mean, if the opponent swarms strikecraft, you build flaks, so if he masses these carrier cap ships, you get some flaks or you do the same thing and use the abilities too and it ends up in a nice stalemate unless you have some other support...

dont be ridiculous, of course i never use strikecraft alone.

btw: strikecraft = bomber or fighters.

What are you guys talking about. Bombers do kill caps, that what they are made for, besides killing heavy and buldings. Whats with this pikemen and cavalry rubbish. Flak are shit against bombers..fighters are way more efficient.

@carbon16. If i get 17 strikecraft suqadrons in a 1v1 (+ other stuff of course, caps illums, disciples, iconus ) then i can get twice as much easily in a 2v2 and even more in a 4v4.

the way i've always thought about it is that AoE is SUPPOSED to scale with opponents in an area. If this looks like it might happen, a decent player would simply micro his strikecraft, diversify his fleet, disable the ships able to do this, etc. etc. or he probably deserves to lose for not being responsive to the tactical/strategic situation at hand.
Similarly, same thing with anything else.. e.g. if you have a few guardians in the middle of a ~500+ supply strong fleet, your opponent better have the sense to go after the guardians first... so I don't think the term OP applies here, its a game mechanic that actually allows some fun gameplay

No one uses strike craft because they are garbage. Before you start complaining about the specifics, maybe you should realize that anything vs strikecraft is "OP."