MMojo MMojo

Unacceptable Experience

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Unacceptable Experience

Too Many Problems

from Sins Forums

I have to say, I was pretty stoked about this game when I first read the reviews from the usual zines.  It got very high ratings, multiplayer looks good, and you can save those long epic battles.

I bought the game a few days ago in a store.  After an insane amount of time wasted just trying to get the install to run on Windows XP (MSXML errors that wouldn't improve despite Windows Updates and changing the IDE transfer type/speed to no avail) I finally copied the DVD to the hard drive and installed it.

Now to update the thing.  No dice.  Serial number not accepted.  As this was a weekend I got around this by downloading the update from a website/file server.

OK..things were looking up until I entered the world of "minidumps."  These have persisted despite graphics and video driver updates and multiple changes in system configuration.  As noted on the forums, they generally screw up a game with at least a few hours already invested it, which ruins an otherwise damn good game.

After a three day lag in reply from tech. support via email I was told that my serial number from a brand new, retail, unopened box was in use by someone else.  And to fix it they asked for a PICTURE of the box/serial code sticker.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDINIG ME.  This forum should be filled with a plethora of apologies from the "Sins" team - developer, distributer, whatever.  Having a game that continues to be sold despite a "known install issue" and "known issues with NVIDIA graphics drivers" (arguably the most popular brand) is RIDICULOUS.  This should have been patch-fixed YESTERDAY.  If it can't be fixed then Ironclad and StarDock should be going above and beyond to make this right for their consumers and make amends.  I would strongly advise others to lobby for improvements and insist that they be fixed.  And a word of advice, when someone shells out the money for a game, don't make it a requirement to photograph your serial number and upload it.  I didn't see a digital camera listed under the "Minimum Requirements" for the game.

If this type of treatment was rendered to consumers in other industries they wouldn't stand for it...why should we?

HELP!

55,763 views 38 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top
It's far more likely that the program which makes the serial labels that are stuck in the boxes is faulty, or that some stores are re-shrinkwrapping returned copies.
End of quote
It's more likely that people figured out that Gamestop/EBgames leaves PC games open on store shelves which exposes the cd-key for everyone to see. All a pirate has to do is stroll in and write down or snap a picture of the cd-key and they're good to go since any product's cd iso is available somewhere online. This works until someone tries to buy the game. This sort of asinine store policy made me stop shopping there and I've been complaining about it to Gamestop/EBgames but they don't seem to realize that there's a difference between how PC and console games are protected.

If you're mad about having to take your picture with the cd-key, then you should be mad at pirates and Gamestop/EBgames, not a company that's trying, in the most unintrusive ways, to protect their product like Stardock/Ironclad is.


Additionally, I'd like to reiterate that the nature of the OP's errors (MSXML errors and more) are indicative of a problem within Windows or a botched iso download (which is why the cd-key picture has come up). There's a reason why there's so much security software out there and why Microsoft recommends reformatting your PC once a year. If you want to get mad at someone you can get mad at yourself and/or Microsoft.
Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top
Since this issue doesn't seem to be affecting *most* players, and since it's unlikely that IC/SD have even a fraction of the different possible combinations of videocards, drivers, OSs, and related hardware available in their test lab (even counting the beta testers), and since there isn't *a* driver for NVidia that existed when the game was developed but a series, each with its own issues, I think it's unreasonable to hammer the devs on this.

The best a development team can hope for is that the published API works as advertised, and when it doesn't, that 1) they find out about it, and 2) there's a workaround, which there often isn't, other than waiting for the next driver update.
Fences - Organize your desktop icons today!
Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top
"EDIT: and about MSXML. This is microsoft software and when it fail to work then its microsofts fault. I mean you can be sure that the devolpers write a installer and then run it against different system configuration to see if it works well. Its NOT like they code something and then say "WTF lets just ship it cause testing sucks....". Surely NOT. "

Well that sounds right, but how many games have you installed?

I have bene gaming since the days of the Commodore Vic20 (yes that long) and have bought literally thousands of games across many platforms and OS's and I can honestly say that this is the first I have had problems installing.

Regarding your other point about developing for PC, now may be I am wrong but isn't that what DirectX is about? Devs write for DirectX and the drivers take care of the rest. That fact that Nvidia are getting blamed reinforces that, so maybe not as difficult, in respect of differing hardware, as you may think.

Cheers,

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top
Conversely, the game is installing upon thousands and thousands of PCs without a hitch, yet yours seems to have an issue.
Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top
mmm.... that's the wrong question. Since the drivers were around BEFORE the game I have to question if Ironclad came up against this problem and, if so, why Stardock have KNOWINGLY release a buggy game that affects so many people?Cheers,
End of quote


No, *that's* the wrong question. Ironclad can use the framework that's provided by DirectX. They, however, don't have control over how video card drivers interact with DirectX and the cards. Ergo, the issue isn't anything Ironclad could ever do about on their end, it has always been with Nvidia.
Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top
I removed some of the Mods and my Dumps have completely gone away. If I had the Symbol Files to debug it would be much easier to know exactly what Mod caused the problem and where and what the problem actually was
Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top
It isn't such a big deal that they ask you for a picture of your serial in this day and age. You could just run down to the library and have them scan it for you or some such if you don't have a digital camera or a scanner. I don't think it is such a big deal for them to ask for that now, however . . . I baught a game a long time ago, when I was just a wee child, back when AOL Didn't freaking exist, and Juno was a new amazing E-mail program that worked for free by dialing up to a server with your computer's modem ;P My serial code wasn't working and I call up the support number ( I can't remember what game, sorry ;( ) But they asked me to take a fing picture of it or scan it, back when scanners and digital cameras were insanely expensive. I ended up just having my dad go and return the game forcefully at the store I got it from. For some reason they always said no to me, but when he went to return it he always came back with money. He probably just threw the game away and gave me money from his pocket to maintain his air of perfectness ;)
Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top
"Conversely, the game is installing upon thousands and thousands of PCs without a hitch, yet yours seems to have an issue."

I don't have an issue now, it's fixed and running, just wouldn't install from SDC.

The point I was trying to make is how come hundreds, you should see me games cupboard, of games titles install perfectly on my PC yet along comes one, SoaSE, and suddenly it's my computer, Windows or video card that's at fault. Don't you think that's even the slighty bit odd?



"Ergo, the issue isn't anything Ironclad could ever do about on their end, it has always been with Nvidia."

You know I didn't suggest or imply that they COULD do something about it, merely voicing the possiblilty that they knew of the issue before shipping.

Cheers,


Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top
You know I didn't suggest or imply that they COULD do something about it, merely voicing the possiblilty that they knew of the issue before shipping.
End of quote


They did, and they've had a ticket open with Nvidia about it for months and months prior - but they can't delay launch while Nvidia figures out what to do with it, either.

Nvidia driver crashing is a problem for a lot of games. For me, Sins is okay with it - but World in Conflict and Hellgate: London are virtually unplayable.
Reply #35 from Sins Forums Top
IF you want an example of poor devmanship go look at 3000ad.com forums. There if you posted a similar comment about their game they'd ban your CD key from the forum and the lead dev himself would call you an idiot. (I'm not saying that you are, in fact I believe everyone has a good point, just that they may be over reacting) Don't abuse the relationship we have with the devs here, they will do everything they can to insure that your gaming experience is perfect but there is only so much they can do!
Reply #36 from Sins Forums Top
"IF you want an example of poor devmanship go look at 3000ad.com forums."

lol, yes a source of neverending entertainment. But hey, I don't mean to abuse anyone or anything, just airing a couple of questions that sprung to mind as I read through this thread.

Cheers,

Reply #37 from Sins Forums Top
IF you want an example of poor devmanship go look at 3000ad.com forums. There if you posted a similar comment about their game they'd ban your CD key from the forum and the lead dev himself would call you an idiot. (I'm not saying that you are, in fact I believe everyone has a good point, just that they may be over reacting) Don't abuse the relationship we have with the devs here, they will do everything they can to insure that your gaming experience is perfect but there is only so much they can do!
End of quote


Same thing happens at the Epic Games UT3 and Gears for PC forums. Only difference is that they can't ban your cd-key unless you post it somewhere publicly. Of course, at their site you can get banned just for reporting a bug or by making a comment when Jeff M. is having PMS. Then they'd do damage control and trace your name down to fan sites to insult you there.


Also, MMojo, read this: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316231 (symptoms only). Your dll files may be missing, infected, or the game's cd/dvd image has been corrupted in some way either by downloading interference (Comcast's false packets) or a botched cd/dvd. There's a lot more going on here than just an Nvidia issue.
Reply #38 from Sins Forums Top
Sounds like the problems are on the user's end, and not Ironclad's fault. I've run this game on 3 different systems. My buddies have played this game on even more systems. I've never heard of anybody having a problem installing or running this game on any OS (this covers XP, XP w/ SP2, Vista, 64-bit Vista w/ SP 1, etc).