[MAGOG]Kruelgor [MAGOG]Kruelgor

LRM Spam is still king.....for now

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LRM Spam is still king.....for now

from Sins Forums
Ok LRM Spam.  You win for now, but Advent will continue to figure out ways to try to stop you.  Back to the drawing board for Advent.

good job Huntingx
strategy
66,557 views 181 replies
Reply #51 from Sins Forums Top
The charts, if you actually are looking at them, where it says LRM's have anti-medium damage (150% to light frigates) and light frigates have anti-heavy damage (75% to LRM frigates) are taken from the game files, and put into a nice little program called excel so you can see. The developers even pinned that chart on the forums because the information is correct... If you refuse to believe all that than you are being immature and stubborn. This info isn't in the in-game data because from what I believe, the developers didn't think people would get so competetive about all this.
Reply #52 from Sins Forums Top
English isn't your first language, is it? Not sure where you think I criticized you for using vulgar language; I was criticizing you for insulting your critics. Anyway, this will be like the tenth post in a row which is just us, so I'm gonna stop feeding you now. I'd suggest you read up on what your talking about (such as the damage modifiers different ships have versus different ship armours) before posting more, but do you think that would be useful?
ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #53 from Sins Forums Top
provide an official link from the developers proving what you are claiming because I think you're just making it up.I have a hunch you may be referring to attributes before patch 1.03Even if you're right, you're still ignoring the HUGE shield advantage that Disciples have.
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Have you done your research on damagetypes and armor of sins?

its all here on forums exstracted from game files.

Yes its true, diciples die silly to lrm's, there is no question, no discussion, period.

The numbers you saw were non upgradet damagetypes of the ships, and if you still insis on the huge shield advantage, let me remind you that tech have huge armor advantage over your silly diciples.
Reply #54 from Sins Forums Top
The charts, if you actually are looking at them, where it says LRM's have anti-medium damage (150% to light frigates) and light frigates have anti-heavy damage (75% to LRM frigates) are taken from the game files, and put into a nice little program called excel so you can see. The developers even pinned that chart on the forums because the information is correct... If you refuse to believe all that than you are being immature and stubborn. This info isn't in the in-game data because from what I believe, the developers didn't think people would get so competetive about all this.
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I'm looking at the in-game info cards. So, you're saying the infocards are incorrect and the developers have basically misguided players with faulty information.

LRM with weapon damage of 11 and armor of 1 VS Disciple with weapon damage of 8 and armor of 8 doesn't match your claim.

So, it appears there is faulty information in the infocards, but that still doesn't explain why Disciple Spam has STOPPED LRM spam cold 100% of the time.
Reply #55 from Sins Forums Top
Disciples as a counter to LRMs. Hah!

Compare the Disciple Vessel to the Seeker Vessel and the Javelis LRM Frigate.

As you can see, the Javelis is the counter to the Disciple, not vice versa. It does 16.5 DPS(sorry, 16, you can't understand decimals) to the Disciple due to AntiMedium damage vs. Medium armor, and the Disciple does 6.375 DPS(6 by your understanding) because of AntiHeavy damage vs. Light armor. Although the Javelis is now more expensive than what is shown in these stats, the cost rise is not that big.

The Advent is much better off with the Seeker Vessel. They are more durable than the Disciple when facing LRM fire, cost half the supply, are cheaper in cash, cost no resources, and do as much DPS per ship because they use AntiLight weapons which are optimized for killing Light armor. They can be used afterwards also for intelligence gathering(obvious) and as disposable suicide missiles(with the requisite tech).
Reply #56 from Sins Forums Top
Disciples as a counter to LRMs. Hah!Compare the Disciple Vessel to the Seeker Vessel and the Javelis LRM Frigate.As you can see, the Javelis is the counter to the Disciple, not vice versa. It does 16.5 DPS(sorry, 16, you can't understand decimals) to the Disciple due to AntiMedium damage vs. Medium armor, and the Disciple does 6.375 DPS(6 by your understanding) because of AntiHeavy damage vs. Light armor. Although the Javelis is now more expensive than what is shown in these stats, the cost rise is not that big.The Advent is much better off with the Seeker Vessel. They are more durable than the Disciple when facing LRM fire, cost half the supply, are cheaper in cash, cost no resources, and do as much DPS per ship because they use AntiLight weapons which are optimized for killing Light armor. They can be used afterwards also for intelligence gathering(obvious) and as disposable suicide missiles(with the requisite tech).
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So, you too, are calling the developers liars for the information they are placing in the infocards?

That must be old data you're looking at on that website(before patch 1.03) because those numbers can't explain why Disciple spamming has stopped LRM spamming 100% of the time.

Also, that is not an official website from the developers.
Reply #57 from Sins Forums Top
That's another great point. The Disciple has a 360 degree weapon. Simply swarm the enemy LRM fleet and decimate them. Always be on the move circling behind and around them and rip them to shreds.Good point!
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You mean the Defense Vessel, right? Well, if you swarm around the sides, the faster Javs will break the front line, land at your homeworld, and proceed to wreck havoc with your structures while your Defense Vessels are:

1. Still playing catch-up.

2. Taking ages to kill the Javs when they do catch up.

3. Sacrificing labs, factories, and/or your capital ship in order to kill the Javelis fleet as a result of point 2.

Even if you pull this off, you're stuck with a bunch of ships which are useless against everything else, and cannot press the attack on further. Flaks can't hit structures, flaks can't hit planets. This gives the enemy time. Time is the most precious resource available. And in this time, if you don't scuttle the flaks and switch over to something else, the enemy will pull out a fleet of Light Frigates and proceed to decimate the flaks.

That's what I thought. I didn't think you could provide an official link because the ship attributes listed in the game DO NOT match your bogus claim, you tactless piece of @#$@#$...

Either you're full of crap or the developers have put faulty information into the game. Which is it?
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The developers have put faulty information into the game because:

1. Some players cannot understand decimals.

2. Players are expected to read the damn Damage Types chart and multiply the values on the infocard. Obviously you can't fit the damage for the ship against each type of opponent on the little card.

That's why they only show the truncated base DPS values in-game, a much dumbed-down reflection of the real behind-the-scene workings of the game mechanics.

Edit: Also, if you read the 1.03 change log, the ONLY changes made to the 3 ships I mentioned are the Javelises cost. It's gone up to 275 cash + 50 metal + 25 crystal. Not much of a difference. And that data is extracted directly from the game files, which were created by the developers.

And you didn't care to watch Archpsi's replay of Javs vs. Disciples? You can take the horse to the water, but you can't make it drink.
Reply #58 from Sins Forums Top
That's another great point. The Disciple has a 360 degree weapon. Simply swarm the enemy LRM fleet and decimate them. Always be on the move circling behind and around them and rip them to shreds.Good point!You mean the Defense Vessel, right? Well, if you swarm around the sides, the faster Javs will break the front line, land at your homeworld, and proceed to wreck havoc with your structures while your Defense Vessels are:1. Still playing catch-up.2. Taking ages to kill the Javs when they do catch up.3. Sacrificing labs, factories, and/or your capital ship in order to kill the Javelis fleet as a result of point 2.Even if you pull this off, you're stuck with a bunch of ships which are useless against everything else, and cannot press the attack on further. Flaks can't hit structures, flaks can't hit planets. This gives the enemy time. Time is the most precious resource available. And in this time, if you don't scuttle the flaks and switch over to something else, the enemy will pull out a fleet of Light Frigates and proceed to decimate the flaks.That's what I thought. I didn't think you could provide an official link because the ship attributes listed in the game DO NOT match your bogus claim, you tactless piece of @#$@#$...Either you're full of crap or the developers have put faulty information into the game. Which is it?The developers have put faulty information into the game because:1. Some players cannot understand decimals.2. Players are expected to read the damn Damage Types chart and multiply the values on the infocard. Obviously you can't fit the damage for the ship against each type of opponent on the little card. That's why they only show the truncated base DPS values in-game, a much dumbed-down reflection of the real behind-the-scene workings of the game mechanics.
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Haha. There we go again. Another person resorting to name-calling and personal attacks as his form of PROOF. Hahahaa! Hilarious.

You still can't explain why Disciple Spam neutralizes LRM Spam 100% of the time, can you?

Reply #59 from Sins Forums Top
Great counter-argument you've got there. The "horse to water" thing is a well-used proverb. Name calling exists in your imagination only.

If Disciple spam neutralizes LRM spam in your imagination, than you may dream up your own new game. Yes, they will win if they severely outnumber the LRMs, but then, that's an economic win and not a Disciple win.
Reply #60 from Sins Forums Top
Great counter-argument you've got there. The "horse to water" thing is a well-used proverb. Name calling exists in your imagination only.
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I see you still can't explain why Disciple Spamming stops LRM spamming 100% of the time. Perhaps it's because you're looking at old out-dated info from a website that hasn't updated its figures since patch 1.03.
Reply #61 from Sins Forums Top
Great counter-argument you've got there. The "horse to water" thing is a well-used proverb. Name calling exists in your imagination only.
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I see you still can't explain why Disciple Spamming stops LRM spamming 100% of the time. Perhaps it's because you're looking at old out-dated info from a website that hasn't updated its figures since patch 1.03.

I guess your little LRM spamming tactic isn't going to work much longer when people catch on to this. Hey! Maybe that's what you're so worried about. You're a TEC player and you don't want people to know about this. That's it! Hahaha!

Reply #62 from Sins Forums Top
What info cards are you talking about? I don't get why you keep saying the developers are lying... Yes the ships do the amount of damage that is said in game, yes they have the same amount of armor in game... but there is a counter system in the game... Hell even on the in game stat screens it says this, "Strong vs. light frigates". Just because they don't say how strong doesn't mean they are lying.

As to why it's working for you, a lot of people online suck and only know how to make LRM's... just because they spam them doesn't mean they know how to play well. But yes enough of them will work. It won't work for very long, initially, even if you have 15 disciples and he has 5 LRM's you will lose a few disciples to his LRM's, but will force him to retreat or kill his ships, but if you both keep making the same ships, eventually the ratio is going to even out a bit. You might have 30 disciples when he has 15 LRM's. Now the fight is about even. You are doing 75% damage to him with LESS base damage when he is doing 150% damage to you with MORE base damage.

The only thing I can see this being succesful in doing is possibly taking out some of his labs or factories, and factories are cheap and easy to build on an adjacent planet. Labs are not easily destroyed and you'll probably lose ~3 disciples in the process which is about the cost of a lab.

My point is yes, you will have a slight advantage early on due to pure mass of ships, but in a few minutes your only choice is to make more disciples which are inferior to his LRM's, or tech up and make your own diverse group of ships, which defeats the purpose of the disciple rush.

Reply #63 from Sins Forums Top
Vasari.

As I said, imagine all you want. Scout spam will beat Disciple spam if you send 1000 scouts after 100 Disciples.
Reply #64 from Sins Forums Top
That must be old data you're looking at on that website(before patch 1.03) because those numbers can't explain why Disciple spamming has stopped LRM spamming 100% of the time.Also, that is not an official website from the developers.
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Before writing this, I realized that if put wrong, this could be understod as deeply sarcastic, it isn't.

Perhaps you have just been the more skilled player, and therefore able to overcome what msot of us perceive to be a handicap. Wouldn't the easiest way to figure out who's right be to play a 1vs1 versus one of the better players in this thread that doesn't believe you? You go Disciple, he'll go LRM. One of you upload the game. Discussion over.
Reply #65 from Sins Forums Top
Also Halcyon carrier is realy nice thing to have if you want to maximize of what you got in terms of firepower, lvl 5 halcyon can have realy loltastic fighter squadrons paired with 22% of faster rate of fire for your fleet makes this thing monster early game.
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Agreed, Halcyon is a beast. Goes good with Mothership. Mothership's Malice combined with Halcyon's improved rate of fire and interceptor squadrons makes for lots of dead badguys in a hurry.
Reply #66 from Sins Forums Top
What info cards are you talking about?
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The info cards in the game, when you are playing the game.

Reply #67 from Sins Forums Top
That must be old data you're looking at on that website(before patch 1.03) because those numbers can't explain why Disciple spamming has stopped LRM spamming 100% of the time.Also, that is not an official website from the developers.Before writing this, I realized that if put wrong, this could be understod as deeply sarcastic, it isn't.Perhaps you have just been the more skilled player, and therefore able to overcome what msot of us perceive to be a handicap. Wouldn't the easiest way to figure out who's right be to play a 1vs1 versus one of the better players in this thread that doesn't believe you? You go Disciple, he'll go LRM. One of you upload the game. Discussion over.
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I've already proven it 10 times over the weekend, but if anyone wants me to prove it to them personally then you be sure to build nothing but LRMs and I will build nothing but Disciples and I'll post the replay link right here in this thread. Even if I lose I will post the replay. No colonizing numerous planets. You just keep 1 planet, I will keep 1 planet and we SPAM.

Again, I'm not saying that Disciple spamming is better than LRM spamming. I'm just saying it will balance it (neutralize it).

You can contact me on XFIRE. My name is "Kruelgor". Cheers!
Reply #68 from Sins Forums Top
The info cards in the game, when you are playing the game.
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yes, and how are those lying is what I'm asking. Just because say stuff like "strong vs. light frigates" and not "150% damage vs. light frigates" doesn't mean they are lying. The info everyone else got is just because some guy took the time to figure out exactly how "strong vs. light frigates".

Reply #69 from Sins Forums Top
[MAGOG]Kruelgor, it's good to discuss ideas and strats, but you've already been completely prooven wrong. Stop arguing. I really don't want people to actually think they can stop an LRM spam with disciple spam. It just won't work. I've played enough games where I had a teammate who attempted this and died miserably leaving me 1v2 right off the bat as he couldn't defend himself from an initial LRM rush from one person.

Go through some of the stickies in the developer journal. You will see all the information you need there. The replies people have given you have told you to look in the game data files. These files have data which IS NOT represented on the info cards.

Remember you're little chart that got stickied? This is why I was saying you should take it down or correct it. It has incorrect values as the true values the game uses are located in the game entity files.

People have told you many times already where to find these files. Maybe you're just not good with computers. Do you need help on how to open them or read them?

Another thing, it doesn't make you look very good when all you do is point fingers at other people for your own mistakes. You used the info cards as a source for your theories (while neglecting a lot of other critical information like damage types). When people pointed out your mistake, you pointed fingers at the devs for "lying". They weren't lying, they just have significantly dumbed down the values and made it simplistic. If you're trying to make a theory on something based on a spreadsheet, you'd better use as accurate numbers as possible and not rely on the overly simplified values.
Reply #70 from Sins Forums Top
People are quitting because this game is just too darn long for must of us with day jobs and a family to play out right.

If you stick to small maps, the game is boring because you can't get a nice sized fleet going due to slow resource and build times. It's at best a 1 cap ship per side affair

Perhaps these new options (not sure if they work multiplayer) to speed up builds, research etc, might make playing a fun online game for 2 hours to a reasonable conclusion or a reasonable surrender.
Reply #71 from Sins Forums Top
The info cards in the game, when you are playing the game. yes, and how are those lying is what I'm asking. Just because say stuff like "strong vs. light frigates" and not "150% damage vs. light frigates" doesn't mean they are lying. The info everyone else got is just because some guy took the time to figure out exactly how "strong vs. light frigates".
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well that "guy" might want to reevaluate or update his figures based on patch 1.03 because Disciple Spamming stops LRM Spamming cold.

Either that or you folks aren't taking all ship factors into consideration. You're definitely IGNORING the huge shield advantage the Disciple has over the LRM.

Reply #72 from Sins Forums Top
OK Kruelgor, play me 1v1 later tonight (say, 7 pacific time) and I'll proove you wrong.

You go mass disciples and I go mass LRM. This isn't an epeen thing, I just want you to stop telling everybody untruths.
Reply #73 from Sins Forums Top
mother ship kicking off shield regen and they win big time.


what's going to stop him from FF your mothership and then retreating when it's dead? I agree that defense vessels do work, but they take a long time to kill. Their main strength is that they can't really be killed by LRMs. But that's moot if the player doesn't even target your defense vessels in the first place. LRM's main strength is that they quickly take down cap ships and structures.


The LRMS MAIN weakness is it only fires from one arc, use that to your advantage and keep moving the 360 degree firing arc of the defense vessels away from their main arc youll get alot more mitigation by not even taking hits, the


The attacking player would be really foolish to actually engage your Defense vessels. You're better off just parking them in front of the lrms.

If I'm LRM rushing and I see you have a bunch of defense vessels and a mothership, I will attempt to evaluate in my head whether my LRMs can kill your cap ship before they die to the defense vessels. If I feel they can, I'll attempt to kill it. If not, I'll just run or hit other priority targets. No player in their right mind would try to kill a defense vessel blob with an LRM blob.

That said, this is just theorycraft. Repair bays and the ability to know when to get your cap ship out of the grav well will change things. Unfortunately, the mothership is so incredibly slow, it can't really avoid getting executed by LRM blobs unless you take out the blob quickly. On the other hand, the radiance is actually fast enough to almost outrun them.
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For the most part it is theory craft and alot has to do with how your opponent is using the LRMS. If they clump them and focus fire your mothership then this strat will work depending on numbers and how far into logistics your opponenet is. It also has ALOT to do with how well the advent player is managing the motherships shield/hull and antimatter. An advent player who jumps a mothership/defense vessel combo into a LRM swarm down shields/hull/antimatter from colonizing battles is going to lose. A properly managed mothership though can take even 15-20 LRMS a long time to take down due to mitigation/the shield regen ability/ and the advents access to early shield regen techs. 2 motherships at full antimatter can fire off like 2 malices shots and 4-6 shield regens before the LRMS are going to have a chance at taking one of them down.

Reply #74 from Sins Forums Top
OK Kruelgor, play me 1v1 later tonight (say, 7 pacific time) and I'll proove you wrong.You go mass disciples and I go mass LRM. This isn't an epeen thing, I just want you to stop telling everybody untruths.
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Sounds good. Add me to xfire. My name is Kruelgor
Reply #75 from Sins Forums Top
OK Kruelgor, play me 1v1 later tonight (say, 7 pacific time) and I'll proove you wrong.You go mass disciples and I go mass LRM. This isn't an epeen thing, I just want you to stop telling everybody untruths.Sounds good. Add me to xfire. My name is Kruelgor
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I don't use xfire