@CalifDude: I offer my sincerest apologies if I've offended you in any way, or if you feel that I slighted you by not taking your concerns seriously. I do ask that you clarify your position and what happened better, if not right here on the forum, please send me a PM and I'll be more than happy to work with you, that's my job

I will second Mumblefratz, in that: are the benefits of what you have accomplished over the last two rounds greater than the penalty of one thing?

Now, that being said, and in turn tying this into the greater debate currently going on in the MVL....

Every few rounds something will come up that forces us to come up with some new rule that seems to do nothing but cause enmity and discord until it finally falls into place and then we continue on blissful and yet, forgetting those hardships only to repeat it again a few months later. Reminds me of Mumble's response in jest from a long time ago of how we all seem to have the attention span of a gnat .

Also, not that I am trying to hide behind this, but this is my first round as Commissioner. It was destined to be bumpy, as all transitions usually run into something. It is a learning curve for me too guys.

Some of us have seemed to get slightly riled as of late (nothing too serious, but still not exactly fluffy bunnies either) and I just want everyone to take a step back. The rules aren't really that big of a deal, don't make them into one. Its not they aren't important to the MVL or anything, but having one rule or a hundred, will never change the fact that we are just here to have fun playing a game and hanging out with our friends. Instead of the back and forth, just try relaxing a little. Besides, I don't have the money to pay for any of your medical bills if you have an aneurysm.

So with all that in mind I offer this for my fellow players to use and think about:

I am only human.

I am allowed to make mistakes.

Life is too short to spend worrying.

It is better to enjoy what is fun, instead of complaining about what isn't.

I understand that no one else is perfect either.

Being a good person will always bring rewards, even if they aren't immediately apparent.

Its ok to get angry, its not ok to lash out. Its important to know the difference.

No one else can hear what you think in your mind, this can be good or bad, but remember that others aren't psychics, to know we must first hear.

and finally,

If you want to make your day immediately better, give someone you care about a hug, you'll be amazed at the results.

hippy!

WTF? CalifDude? You have a great game to submit, I don't think anyone is handicapped. The amount of time you spent in the private forums shows that you tried and successfully learned from your teamates. But if you could fill your teamates in a little bit about your issues in the private forum instead of here, I'll be OK with that.
This was the 1 worst thing that could happen, lose a single player. Also I would like to point out (care of Mumble) that the most important part of this leaque is improving your game and having fun. It took weeks but I have a 22 000+ game, impossible without the help of my team. And I am bullheaded.
I personally don't use ARCs or cnt N (afraid of getting cakewalk). So before any hasty decisions, chat with your team first please.

Partially in jest. As you see there is some element of truth. In the case of hurt feelings I wish there was even a shorter attention span but alas that seems to not be the case.

Actually I have no idea where the complaint against the commissioner came from. I also really don't quite understand where the idea of being penalized came from either unless there was a behind the scenes PM that I was not aware of.

All I can do is make a guess which as we all know is widely subject to both error and interpretation, but in an attempt to try and clear the air a little let me hazard a guess, and I really am reaching to understand here because it all seems so blown out of proportion.

Anyway, Califdude had received the Jagged Knife event and as you know if it's your planets involved then it's a disaster, if an opponents planets are involved it can be a godsend. Anyway he felt his game was ruined and he had spent quite a bit of time on it and was pissed (as we all would be) that he felt he would have to start over.

I advised him to not waste his effort and simply go back to a save game and continue from there. To be honest I would have done the same thing and I don't really doubt that at least 90% (if not 100% to be honest) of the league would do the same thing.

Anyway Califdude had made a minor rant about the event in the thread and then later said that he took my advice and simply reloaded from a save game and therefore his complaint was moot.

I responded that the reload issue is an issue that I didn't think was in the best interest of the league to poke to much at. The reason I said this was not because of Califdude's issue but because of another potential similar case that might come to light at the end of the round. I was trying to be discreet to a select few people and indicate that it was better if the issue wasn't brought up.

Anyway what Califdude or anyone else that my comment wasn't specifically directed at thought I was saying is very unclear.

Then Kzinti simply stated that we probably should at least hear folks opinions on it.

OK here goes the real supposition on my part. First off I assume that Kzinti really meant nothing in regard to Califdude specifically but felt it was an item that at least warrented hearing the opinion of the league on the matter. However perhaps Califdude took this as specifically directed against his reloading the game to avoid the Jagged Knife event and this was what he took as the penalty that people felt should apply to him where it's clear that I or you or pretty much anyone else would merely reload and say nothing about it hence no penalty.

Anyway other than a behind the scenes PM this is all I can think of and in my opinion no one really meant anything critical about what Califdude did.

Anyway what I would like to happen is for Califdude to come back and finish the round and continue in the league and for no one else to hold anything against him for this apparent outburst that seems to have no basis in reality to me but clearly is something that Califdude felt strongly about.

Definitely...I would have reloaded.



Correct, I was speaking in general terms about a potential issue that I had not thought about before, and not about CalifDude specifically.



At the time I posted, I was not aware of this other issue, but I am now. I do consider it to be something potentially serious, and I would urge that at the end of the round it be made known to everyone.

Sentient species taste better...

what other issue? You can PM me, I hate surprises

ok, so moratorium on that particular issue (@kp/mumble/jeff) for the moment please. I am still getting caught up on things since being back from break and have not fully had time to digest and discuss the matter. And its not like we don't have enough on our plates.

Can everyone just go play some games and get them submitted please?

WARNING! What follows is a large wall of text. If you don't wish to read said wall, please skip to the last paragraph, where I summarize.

Yeah, if CalifDude thought that this discussion was in reference to his gameplay, then that was an extremely unfortunate misinterpretation. Reloading after Jagged Knife is the course of action that 99% of those playing DA would have done (that 1% is the person, I forget who, that mentioned how Jagged Knife actually helped him in the game). This discussion of reloading has nothing to do with that. I foresaw this reloading discussion happening, but I was hoping it would hold off until the end of the round, mostly because that seems to be the best time to discuss rule changes.

However, since this discussion is now upon us, I suppose I have one recommendation. We don't pass any new rules regarding ARC, reloading, what have you. Instead, after a round has finished, everyone should post an AAR of how they played their game. It doesn't have to be too detailed (although if you're playing a shorter game, and you want to show exactly how you maximized efficiency, then sure, get detailed) but just an outline of what your basic strategies, what was your design plan when building on your planets, etc. If you're using an ARC, then explain your design choices in reference to the game. If you're not using an ARC, explain why you chose the race you did.

Granted, I see the MVL as a learning experience more than anything, so the idea of everyone showing off their strategies at the end may appeal to me more than others. At the end of each round, you could compare strategies, say "Oh, that's a great idea, I'll try that next time!", offer advice to other players on ways you think they could improve their game, etc. Also, if you see that someone has used something that you consider to be an exploit, then you can say to yourself "Pff, if they hadn't used that trick, I would've beat them." CAVEAT: No actual posting such thoughts in the forums, lets try to keep things lighthearted, everybody. Meanwhile, it would limit the use of certain time grinds for better scores/speeds (Would you really want to post "I first researched all my medicine techs, then reloaded until I got a Plague event"? Where's your pride?)

For those of you who followed my warning, and are just joining in, my recommendation is to have everyone post AARs at the end of the round. Some people already do it, this would just extend the task to everybody. I don't see the MVL as a place where you find a great strategy, then guard it with your life and use it to win rounds. Winning rounds is alright, but nobody gets to see your genius plan. I'd rather brag about finding a great strategy, rather than brag about how my team has won the past X rounds, or I've had the highest score for the past X rounds. Granted, maybe I'm wrong about that, and what's most important to the MVL is bragging rights about winning rounds. Or maybe it's too much to ask of all players to write up an AAR (this wouldn't be applied to this round, as I certainly can't remember the grand strategy in my game). Just a suggestion, which would hopefully eliminate some of the issues which popped up in this round. (Alright, that was a long summary, my apologies.)

Edit: Whoops, sorry Silver. Believe it or not, I started this post before you posted, but it takes me a long time to work out exactly what I plan to say, mostly because I write a bunch of junk that I end up having to delete. Anyways, I would personally prefer a moratorium on all rule changes until the end of the round, but since I don't feel like having to retype this later, I'm leaving it up.

To me this is just a walk in the park.

While an AAR is a nice touch for someone that posts an exceptional game to do on occasion, I really believe that it should be of that persons own violition to do so. To ask everyone do it really does seem to me to be excessive. Certainly to do so within the confines of your team forum is another reasonable thing to do but again on a totally voluntary basis.

All in all I prefer the last rule that Silver posted in the Rulebook to deal with this concern.

@Vegjed: its ok, my post was geared to very specific people, not the general ARC discussion.

Not a bad idea, but I'm worried about 1) practicality and 2) it still doesn't give a level playing field, which, I'm gathering is the concern. Even if the knowledge is "there" the way we do points would unfairly benefit those that "exploit" the game in some manner.

But I'll definitely keep it in mind and see if we can work with it in some way in the future.


@Mumble: yeah, i like big broad sweeping statements. Its why the Constitution works, its flexible.

Personally, I love the idea of everyone doing AARs, no matter what resolution we come to on the ARC, straw dog and brewing reload issue to be named later. Maybe the AARs could be a strictly voluntary, but officially encouraged thing perhaps?

edit: On the general issue of re-loading, one thing to mention pre-emptively is that in Twilight the creativity ability gives a random chance of "proc"ing whatever tech you are currently researching. One beta tester said that he'd had success reloading back a few turns if it failed to proc for a bit. This seems exploitable in a way that could seriously imbalance the game, given enough real time spent reloading every few turns. Just thought maybe that one should be addressed ahead of time.

You know...once upon time there was a league around here somewhere....a place where a simple idea of playing some common games was held.

Wonder what ever happened to that.

This is really starting to just go from one thing to another of all these little bs things that I feel is irrelevent to what the league stands for. I have fully supported the league since it's inception even though I'm not the most vocal, but all this nit-picking can really curb one's enthusiasm. I don't really care if someone wants to sit there and reload everyother turn. If they want to go through the trouble of doing that so be it. I don't even really care about the other "issues" people keep bringing up. I just want to play the game and have fun. Trying to overegulate every part of the game is just going to leave a bad taste in people's mouth.

I agree DA, ARC's, loading every turn. straw dogs...who cares...have all these things made that much of a difference. Look at Playjeff, no reloading, no ARC and no straw dogs and he got over 22K!!!

That is a awesome score, so all the bullshit about advantages and level playing fields is crap. I used an ARC this round and got less than half of that score. Anyone use a straw dog, i bet your score faired little better. How about reloading every turn, anyone try that? Hows your score.

The idea of the MVL was that score and speed did not matter, only that you win. If we are going to argue about level playing fields and who has what advantage, then lets get rid of points for score and speed.

That way who cares what score you manage or how fast you manage it. You got your win for the team and that is what is meant to count.

We are meant to be playing for fun, and this has been the least fun round we have had. Either we get back to just playing and stop dissecting every facet of game play or the MVL will lose players...me included.

Grow up everyone.....it's a game....it's meant to be fun...when did we lose sight of that. Just to point out how much fun we have lost in the game....when was the last team VS team taunt....if you have to look back through the pages to fine it....it was too long ago.

Wow that felt better...sometimes everyone needs a kick in the pants, me included, to wake up to ourselves.

@Silver,

How in god's name did you expand the border in your reply #202. Did you use some kind of magic secret html code to do a margin release?

What's the secret?

You guys are right. I fear I've, trying to help, made myself less than helpful - sorry. Let's just have fun.

Well, on that note. To all opponents of the Celestial Crusaders.

May thouest be swallowed by a whale with excessively bad breath.

is there a good martini bar inside? if so, then I'm ok with it


@Mumble: reply #202 looks normal to me, but I'm using FF

No, but there's a really nice sushi bar.

oh i'll pass then, i really don't like sushi.

But since everyone has been such good sports, if we win (and we will), I'll make a nice farfalle pasta with a red pepper sauce and sweet Italian sausage, with bruschetta with fresh basil and Roma tomatoes. Pair it with a nice Pinot Grigio or a Syrah.

Yup, I can cook and cook well.

yeah, I bet you're all getting hungry now

I'm cooking Team E right now.

Very Strange.

I'm using IE6 and here's how your reply #202 looks to me.



Every other post on this forum looks like this.



You know maybe it's not anything from your post. It could possibly be from Neilo's post of the single smiley in reply #201.

There was a reply in the Kzinti thread where KP had quoted a reply with an embedded quote in it and there was a missing end quote tag in his reply and then thereafter each reply of the thread had an extra left indent. In this case it's almost as if it was the opposite case of a margin release.

hmmm, its almost too bad, I like how my post looks in 202 for you better than the normal look.

okay, i will be able to join in on the next Round

When is the next one starting? or better question when is this one ending?

GalenEvil