TomChick TomChick

Black Market Blues

Black Market Blues

Or, "How I haven't yet learned to stop worrying and love the F3"

Okay, so my biggest complaint so far -- and it's a testament to the great work you guys at Ironclad have done that this is my biggest complaint so far! -- is everything tucked behind the F3 key. Bounty and the black market are both really cool features. The black market is very much like the typical market function in other RTSs, but with the twist that you can put up resources for other players to buy. The bounty is a great bit of innovation, and I can't think of any counterpart in other RTSs.

However, both features are buried behind -- and I'm going to be candid here -- an absolutely wretched F3 screen. It's a big fat waste of screen real estate that gets all up in my face and shuts me out of the rest of the game. You guys at Ironclad have done a truly stellar job making use of the screen real estate, so what's the deal with this eyesore? I understand that the tech tree needs to jump out at me. That's a given. It's a big slab of techs and I need to see how they relate to each other. But the black market is a huge PITA when I can do nearly everything else -- build up a planets, divert my fleets, and even manage battles -- without pulling my focus from whatever I'm looking at.

The market stuff needs to sit discreetly on the main screen somewhere. A game like Age of Empires III has the exchange of goods tied to a building, so the interface sits in the main panel when you select that building. But you can hotkey the market and sell food and wood to your heart's content while managing a battle. Even better, Rise of Nations has the market stuff in the upper left hand corner. It's a set of simple buttons you press, each listing the price to buy or sell a given good.

I'm surprised Sins doesn't have some way to let me buy and sell goods without having to press F3 and then maybe tab past a giant useless picture of a scowling pirate. What's worse, I've totally lost track of whatever it is I need to buy or build, which is why I was going to the black market in the first place. While I'm in the F3 screen, I can't interact with the empire tree or the action panel. In fact, most of the time, I don't bother with the black market because I've forgotten about it. I haven't seen how the player-posted goods work, but I can't imagine it's a very effective game feature if it relies on us periodically leaving the game to visit the F3 screen. If metal or crystals have been posted for sale, that deserves some prominent placement on the game screen.

Similarly, I love the idea of last-minute bounty bidding, but it sucks that you have to leave the game and go to F3 to play. C'mon, Ironclad, you guys should know better. Sins shows every sign of being carefully streamlined and lovingly honed over the course of its long beta. The features tucked onto the F3 screen deserve better!

So there's my two peeved cents. But I only whinge because I care.

-Tom
61,473 views 42 replies
Reply #26 Top
Ron, that is actually a very good idea. I don't know how we missed it coming up before. I've written it down a piece of paper using a big fat black marker for the next meeting :)
Reply #27 Top
Excellent idea, that's nice and not intrusive at all, I WANT THAT IN SINS.
Reply #28 Top

Ron, that is actually a very good idea. I don't know how we missed it coming up before. I've written it down a piece of paper using a big fat black marker for the next meeting
End of quote


Don't forget it! :P
Reply #29 Top
I think, personally, that l-click buys and r-click sells on the resource amount display is a viable solution, just because really, I don't find my self clicking in that general area very often, and it takes NO resource space. I don't really care for the hotkeys for it too much, Sins' pacing is usually placid enough to not really need em.

For those really worried about selling their empire in a single click, maybe an interface option could be included to disable the buttons.
Reply #30 Top
Remember, if it gets added in, I'll come out and personally wash the cars* you guys buy with your filthy Micro$oft Games for Windows lucre!

-Tom

* Offer still not valid in some states.
Reply #31 Top

* Offer still not valid in some states.
End of quote

Please be valid in Vancouver!  :p 

Reply #32 Top
how about putting bounty in the diplomacy screen it is a form of diplomacy
Reply #33 Top
I think, personally, that l-click buys and r-click sells on the resource amount display is a viable solution, just because really, I don't find my self clicking in that general area very often
End of quote

there is the small issue of that area being used to find out incomes on most of your planets, both otherwise its not really a problem.
Reply #34 Top
The buy/sell being displayed right on the "nothing selected" bar sounds good, but I have the feeling it might not quite be idiot proof enough.

A slight variant, to have a "Black Market" button (in the "A" or "Q" hotkey spots) which then gave the 4 buy/sell options, might be a little safer.

It would just be one more click down, no different than clicking down a level for any other tech (like how "Develop Planet" -> Civilian Infrastructure, Emergency Facilities, etc).

A one click buffer for click happy buffoons.
Reply #35 Top
no, still disliking anything that pulls up a new menu in my face, especially one that I can screw myself over with. thats not buffoon proof, to the opposite its quite buffoon friendly.
Reply #36 Top
Hmm, maybe I wasn't being clear, I didn't mean pulls up a new menu, I meant in the permanently displayed hotkey window box thing in the lower right. Dunno the technical terms.

Like when a cap ship levels up and you have to click the star button and then select a skill to upgrade. But swap the star with a skull and crossbones and swap the skills to upgrade with the 4 buy/sell options. That make sense?

Edit - I can see why I was confusing before, I didn't mean like the planetary upgrade tech trees, I was trying to describe this mechanic with the planetary upgrade buttons. Cap ship skill point expendiure should be less misinterpretable.
Reply #37 Top
I think, personally, that l-click buys and r-click sells on the resource amount display is a viable solution, just because really, I don't find my self clicking in that general area very often

there is the small issue of that area being used to find out incomes on most of your planets, both otherwise its not really a problem.
End of quote


To expand on this: the problem is that if you make left/right clicking on resource displays to buy/sell resources, you also need to include info on the buy/sell prices. Since that infocard is already stuffed with planet incomes and such, where would buy/sell go? I guess you could cram it in there on top, but the card already runs out of room when you have enough planets.
Reply #38 Top
I guess you could cram it in there on top, but the card already runs out of room when you have enough planets.
End of quote


Ick, good point.
Reply #39 Top
One solution would be to make holding down the ctrl key or something over the resource displays would switch between the income info card and the black market infocard. So hover mouse = income, ctrl+hover = black market. The problem is it adds another key to remember, but as long as this kind of thing isn't overused, it shouldn't get too bad.
Reply #40 Top
You could extend that idea slighly to reinforce the CTRL- Blackmarket meme by making the required clicks CTRL-LMB / CTRL-RMB. That'd save on accidental clicks to that area of the screen.
Reply #41 Top
ooh i like that idea!
Reply #42 Top
So we got a culture fix...

Can we blow Tom's mind totally out of the water with a Black Market update?