No offense NT but it is a post on "Community Skins". It would seem that most should but in. However I think I will butt out since I see good points mention from both sides. OOPs I think I just butted in.

  

When all people have to say is "who cares", they really have nothing to add, dontcha think?     

Just tryin to understand where things stand.....so, to those who are not in agreement with the definition given by KarmaGirl the prefered guidlines are:

A community skin must be:
-Completely Free
-Announced prior to release in an open call

-Consist of how many people?

I fully agree with Karma's definition.  It's why I've covered such skin sets as I do.

To everyone who has complained about MaxStyles projects not being inclusive enough, not being announced properly etc. why not start your own projects?  Obviously there's a number of folks who want these projects handled differently.  There's nothing stopping anyone here from working together on a skin set like the Halloween suite kicked off by theAVMAN.

Organize it how you like, announce it as you like.  Make it as big or as small as you like.

I see a set of free skins, done by a group of members of the community, it's a community skin project.  Is it as epic and coordinated as something like Heavy Equipment?  No, but that doesn't disqualify it. 

True. You where referring to Nimbin's post. I see that now.

I think FREE is the operative word here, if it's not free, then in the context of Wincustomize, I dont believe it's a community suite. This is especially so if you have to go off site to purchase the main component.

And I guess because its not all free that doesn't disqualify it either.

Just to paraphrase...

A 'Community' is made up of 'Masters' - not just many people.

OK..simple word relocation may miss the point....

Masters are ALSO part of the Community.  They should not be excluded from Community projects.  Some of a Master's output is non-free.  That, too is part of the skinning community in this third millennium...

Not to pile on, but everyone else has an opinion, so here goes:

Community Skin = Halloween

community effort = Harmony

Harmony's a great skin, John. Thanks for all the work that went into it by you all the other artists involved. It qualifies as a Master Skin in my book, despite the irony of its name, given this thread.

I feel both Kitty & John have valid points of view & on which side of the discussion you fall depends on whether or not you believe the word 'community' should be capitalized. A minor niggle, perhaps, but apparently significant to some. When the dust settles, we'll all have a better understanding.

So, do the 'community' members who contribute to said skin get a cut of the do-re-mi?

IMHO, vStyler is a very good skinner. I happened to have seen the Harmony WB offered for purchase on the MaxStyles site previous to it's inclusion in the 'Harmony' community project here.

When I saw the 'advertisement' on the WC front page about the 'Harmony' project (I believe there was mention of a needed WB) - I thought of the skin I had seen on MaxStyles site and was interested to see if the Harmony WB by vStyler would be thrown in the project as a free offering.

I cannot say whether it should have been free, but I do think that a clear definition of 'Community Skin (Suite)' is needed.

After reading a majority of the comments, I feel that the comments are based on 'connotation' rather than 'definition'. I believe that there is enough interest shown in this thread alone to promote the need for an actual definition made by the administrators of this site.

A little clarity can go a long way.

To clarify one thing.. Zoomba did not know I had released Harmony on my site when the article was written, as far as I remember he wasnt even aware it was a Maxstyles originated project as all of the contributing members were also WC community members.

Po....that would be entirely up to a determination by/between the parties involved.

Does porting a premium skin to an alternate proggy/skinnable warrant a share of the premium skin's income?

Would not that depend on the circumstances of the port's engagement/undertaking?

Simple over-the-top example.....

'Master' does a premium skin called 'X'.  He approaches me to port it to Winamp 2x ... thus possibly enhancing its appeal commercially [as it is now more than 'just' the one WB]  I can say 'OK...provided I get a kick-back [portion] of the income, or I can say 'no', or I can say 'gladly - no strings attached'...the choice is mine.

or

'Master' does a premium skin called 'X'.  I approach him to port it to Winamp 2x ... thus possibly enhancing its appeal commercially [as it is now more than 'just' the one WB]  Now it is HE who has the options, not me.

In the second scenario 'profit sharing' is not an option....unless 'Master' is feeling generous as the approach was mine, not his....

I see said the blind man!

BTW, vStyler. Thank you for all the free ported skins. I especially enjoy VXP2 as it is an extremely fast skin (a big plus in my book).   

I think the additional players are gaining exposure by being associated with Maxstyles and Vstyler.

Calling something a "community" anything is about recognizing a significant community effort, is it not? How/why would money prevent that recognition?

i still fail to understand why a 'community' suite has to be composed of completely free skins. nobody has stated an acceptable reason why every component must be free. so what if the blind, wall, rainy, dx theme, cursor, or whatever isn't free? if you don't want to pay for it, don't.

Harmony & whitefire2 are not community skins, because they both need vStyler and Basj approvals.

HeavyMetal & Avman's Halloween skin are community skins, because anyone with skills can do without one peculiar skinners' approval.

I do not receive any monetary compensation for my contributions to any skins. That's not why I do this. That's not to say I wouldn't want to make money off of stuff, that'd be crazy, but I make good money at my present job. This isn't an income generator for me like it is for some. Maybe one day...


This is correct, at least for me personally.

Keep in mind, they were never billed by the creators as community skins.   

Look everyone.. the definition was carved in stone by KarmaGirl and further chisled in granite by Jafo. MUST this drivel continue!!!  

I mentioned in my comments on whitefire2 WB that nobody need my approvals if they would like to do anything to make the suite bigger, I only request them to let me see it prior of releasing it if and only if he/she will be using any part of my original work. Some of the artist actually does that. And I do have the right as the original artist to put this request.

Some artist,who did not use any of my work, just send it over to me just to ask for my comment on it and If I can help suggesting something to make their work better. And that my friends IMHO is a community work. The respected artist get some guide to improve his/her skills and the community as a whole get better quality skin/artwork etc etc. Dont you think?.

The answer is pretty simple...but decidely not 'clear'(that they are not).  

No one was more suprised than Vstyler and I that Harmony was being touted as a 'community' project.Nothing that I know of from Maxstyles has ever been promoted by us as a community project.Our core group of skinners obviously gets first crack at contributing...but certainly under no obligation to provide complimentary skins for everything we do for the simple reason...we cant afford to commission work from them...yet.  (it would be unfair to MAKE them do it for nothing) 

 But since vStyler asked a few handpicked skinners to help out,they have the option of producing their own skins for sale even tho they dont yet have master status here at Winc.

Even tho they are part of the Maxstyles group,everyone of us is a part of this community too...and any quality windowblind(pay or free) is gonna take on a 'community' aspect all on its own.(which brings on an even more communical aspect from the contributions from skinners outside the core)

What Zoomba is doing by promoting the work of more and more artist is great...I love it...I think he should continue to do so whether it be free or with a (single)pay skin at its core.

If the word community is the issue,fine,I agree,its misleading to call anything we do a community project...never were.But there isnt a thing wrong with promoting a pay skin exactly as such...while also acknowledgeing the efforts of the rest.(did you expect Zoomba to mention just the free stuff but make no reference to the initial inspiration for all those skins?)  

By your strict definition of community skin,my friend Night train's Citrium skin wasnt a commnity skin.(correct me if I am wrong)But quality inspires the group effort and it became a community effort.  

So it seems(to me),in your demanding way,you really just want the site to conform to your views(again) while making Maxstyles(and by extension,ZOOMBA)look bad.You should cut Zoomba some slack...I dont think he was even aware of Harmony's status as a pay theme...tho that only matters as it pertains to the label 'Community skin'.

On that,I agree...we never asked for it or wanted it...the exposure was fine and dandy...maybe Zoomba just needs to call these group efforts something else...I would.  
So was Harmony a 'community skin'?Nah,not in my view...was it a community effort?...you bet!  

Wrong...and right ,sorta...

even community efforts require the originating authors approval if thats the way they want it.

If I started a 'true' community project,based on my ideas and graphics,...you can bet I will retain full control over final say in what is included...even if the initial offer was open to all.Dont agree?...dont sign up.(yes,I'm a hard bastard to work with...just ask Webgizmos,Bilbo and Puter dude Jim)  

and messiah1