Instead of a Beta...

So, I just completed a rather harrowing gigantic game. Before I started this game, I decided that I would take notes while I was playing, and try to think of things that could be improved in the game, or just note things that kind of annoy me while playing it.

Many of these complaints would have been mentioned were I involved in a beta version of TA, but since Stardock has decided not to do a beta this time, I offer the following instead.

Add the standard disclaimer that I love GalCiv2, love Stardock, and would probably marry the game, if it were legal to do so.

That out of the way, here are my notes:

1) Planet/Ship List --> When searching for planets, there should be an option for the player to filter by range, and another filter for environmental technology needed to colonize. Searching through a huge list of radioactive planets on the other side of the galaxy is less than useful. The model used in MOO2 was pretty useful, IIRC.

2) Ships defending planets --> Unless using an Orbital Fleet Manager, defensive ships are basically taking turns lining up to be killed by the invading forces; there is no logical reason why they should do this that I can see. The OFM is okay, I guess, but the space required to build it on makes it less appealing, much less the fact that it's unique. So, only one planet in the empire has clued in to the idea of a coordinated defense? I suggest, as an alternative, that the OFM be removed from the game, and instead, make *all* planets' defense forces defend as a fleet. This will change invasion tactics drastically, granted, but not for the worse IMHO.

3) Morale of capital too low --> The home planet of each empire should be given an increased morale bonus. This will make the initial colonization phase less harrowing, and stop players being forced to build morale buildings on the home planet, where space is needed for more important projects.

4) Technology Rate --> On the Setup Screen, the "Technology Rate" always defaults back to Normal, whereas other picks remain from the previous game. This is annoying if one wants to start a new game with the same settings as before. Is there any reason for this?

5) Default Domestic settings --> Why does it start at 67% production? A way for a player to save starting settings from game to game would be nice.

6) Racial colours --> Should be random with each game. I should not be able to see that I am sitting beside the Drengin. Red could be Altarian one game, Torian the next, etc. I realize that this would be a difficult change to make, as the colours are tied in to each race's interface and ship design, etc. Still, another area where MOO2 had something that GalCiv could borrow from.

7) Starting ships --> A random mix of ships might be fun, rather than the default miner, colony ship, survey ship. I would not be averse to, for example, a scout and constructor as well as a colony ship. Even a transport (for the more efficient method of colonizing!) The player should always get one colony ship, though, I think. You could also tie this in to each race. For example, the Korath could start with a single spore ship, and the Korx could start with a freighter. This simple change would make for some interesting strategical choices.

8) Resources --> There should be a way to easily find them on a map once you have discovered them. Modify the Planet/Ship search function, perhaps.

9) Influence Points in Diplomacy/Trade screen --> Do these points even do anything? I often give them away to races as I meet them as a way to say "Hey, I'm your friend. Take this useless thingamajig as a token of my friendship until I decide to destroy you".

10) Custom Race Inequality --> It is my understanding that custom races are not as powerful as the default races, in terms of points assigned to them. This, to me, seems to be unbalancing. All races, custom or no, should be as close to possible as every other race. I don't understand why the game was designed this way, in fact.

11) Custom race attributes --> Additionally, if all of us are choosing Morale and Economics for our custom races, that presents a problem; the choices should be more balanced in my opinion. Making, for example, Soldiering or Creativity less expensive would make them more appealing when a player designs a race. Alternatively, the cost of Morale and Economics could be raised to make them less appealing.

12) Selecting ships --> When clicking on a stack of ships/fleets, the bottom one becomes selected, rather than he top one. This is non-intuitive and kind of annoying.

13) Rallypoints --> There should be a way to delete rallypoints (is there a way?) A way to send all ships of a certain class to a rallypoint would be useful. The option to send *all* ships period is less than useful.

14) Upgrading ships --> Upgrading all ships of a certain class is useful... if you are rolling in BC's. Upgrading all ships of a certain fleet would be much more manageable, and more useful than the current clickfest one goes through when updating some but not all ships. Additionally, once a ship has been told to upgrade, some kind of notification should be present, like a little "U" in the corner.

Well, if you got this far, thanks for reading. Especially if you work at Stardock, heh.
12,980 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top
I don't work for Stardock but I'll second your request for upgrading fleets. Usually I get 2 or 3 fleets with high experience points. Those are the only ones I want to upgrade and it does take quite a bit of time and clicking to upgrade those.

Oh, and you can delete rally points. I believe you have to disband it. I know, sounds weird, but I've done it. I'm at work right now or I'd give you the exact procedure.
Reply #2 Top

2) Ships defending planets --> Unless using an Orbital Fleet Manager, defensive ships are basically taking turns lining up to be killed by the invading forces; there is no logical reason why they should do this that I can see. The OFM is okay, I guess, but the space required to build it on makes it less appealing, much less the fact that it's unique. So, only one planet in the empire has clued in to the idea of a coordinated defense? I suggest, as an alternative, that the OFM be removed from the game, and instead, make *all* planets' defense forces defend as a fleet. This will change invasion tactics drastically, granted, but not for the worse IMHO.

3) Morale of capital too low --> The home planet of each empire should be given an increased morale bonus. This will make the initial colonization phase less harrowing, and stop players being forced to build morale buildings on the home planet, where space is needed for more important projects.


2) Hrm, I thought there was a 1 per planet improvement that would allow them to defend w/ your logistics skill and another that was a once in galaxy that defending regardless of logistics skill... Without being at my home pc to check, I....I got nothing.

3) Morale of the capital's biggest problem is the recent up in the population cap. An inherent bonus to morale for the capital would help offset this and keep from placing 3 or so morale buildings to keep happy.
Reply #3 Top
2) Hrm, I thought there was a 1 per planet improvement that would allow them to defend w/ your logistics skill and another that was a once in galaxy that defending regardless of logistics skill... Without being at my home pc to check, I....I got nothing.


It should not require an improvement of any kind; it's a matter of common sense tactics, really. If a fleet of battleships attacks an opposing navey, would you expect the defending navy to send one ship at a time until the attackers were repelled/destroyed? Or would the defenders also attack as a fleet, in order to even the odds a bit? The current model makes little sense to me.

As it stands now, unless I am playing against spore ships, I tend not to bother with orbited fleets at all; better, in my experience, to have nearby fleets defending the general area instead of individual planets.
Reply #4 Top
It should not require an improvement of any kind; it's a matter of common sense tactics, really. If a fleet of battleships attacks an opposing navey, would you expect the defending navy to send one ship at a time until the attackers were repelled/destroyed? Or would the defenders also attack as a fleet, in order to even the odds a bit? The current model makes little sense to me.


Essentially, this is "not realistic!" argument, which, in my view, is out of place for a sci-fi game. However, I agree with you that orbiting ships should be able to defend as a fleet. That is, you should be able to form orbiting fleets (which may include all ships in orbit if you have sufficient logistics and wish to include all ships). This would enhance the gameplay, IMHO, because it would make the game more challenging for human player. Currently it is quite easy to evade powerful fleets and take the planets by picking off the defenders one by one.

Maybe you should not start with the ability but have to research a low level tech. Also, OFM improvement would not be totally useless as it enables to create an orbiting fleet of all ships regardless of the logistics level.

As it stands now, unless I am playing against spore ships, I tend not to bother with orbited fleets at all; better, in my experience, to have nearby fleets defending the general area instead of individual planets.


Same here. I usually have a combat ship in orbit only for defense against lone and fast transports and spore ships and I almost never build OFM.


This has been pointed out before but something really needs to be done with constructing and defending of starbases. At the moment, building constructors/starbases is tedious micromanagement. Maybe building a starbase could be achieved by one initial constructior and then production assignment (akin to asteroid mines and minifreighters)? Such approach would also take care of cheese tactics (abuse) of building fully developed starbases in one turn. (Such as military starbases in the middle of enemy territory just before an attack) Once built the bases should have much more powerful defenses (maybe more hp and faster repair rate). Currently it is way to easy to pick off starbases, which hurts AI because it does not know who to protect them properly.

Finally, speed still needs tweaking. First, the AI does not seem to understand that all its fleets are worth nothing if it cannot protect its planets against very fast strike forces. Second, the starbase modules and the super ability should affect the cost of moving through the area of influence not add/detract from the moves at the start of the turn. Current system is both frustrating (oops, my speed 15 freighter ended its move in the area of influence of Iconians!) and easy to circumvent as correctly positioned (tedious micromanagement!) fast moving ships are not affected. Thridly, the pathfinding should take into account of such areas. (AFAIK, the pathfinding ignores the areas)
Reply #5 Top
I definitely agree on points 2) and 3)

As for 9) I used to think the same, but these influence points determine how many votes you'll have on the next UP council. So it may be worth hanging on to your points, as so have no way of telling what weird suggestion they will be voting on next   
Reply #6 Top
10) Custom Race Inequality --> It is my understanding that custom races are not as powerful as the default races, in terms of points assigned to them. This, to me, seems to be unbalancing. All races, custom or no, should be as close to possible as every other race. I don't understand why the game was designed this way, in fact.


You're in for a disappointment. Have you heard the news about how different each civilization is going to be in TA? The Yor, as I've read, are going to lose morale and farming techs, and be replaced with some sort of power system which determines how many Yor are available to serve in manufacturing or research.

________________
Edit:
Here is the source of the information.
WWW Link

Apparently, morale resources are now useless to the Yor.
Reply #7 Top
You're in for a disappointment. Have you heard the news about how different each civilization is going to be in TA? The Yor, as I've read, are going to lose morale and farming techs, and be replaced with some sort of power system which determines how many Yor are available to serve in manufacturing or research.


This is not the point, is it? The Yor may not have access to farming techs in the coming expansion but they will have something else. I think his point is that custom civilization has less abilities (fewer points to assign) than any precreated civ.


Reply #8 Top
I agree with the OP that fleeting defending ships is a matter of common sense. I'm not opposed to having to research the ability, but once researched, it should be applied to every planet in the empire, not just the one. Also, and this is a very important also; it should be optional whether or not to use the skill on a planet by planet basis. Sometimes it is best NOT to use it. I am always glad when I come across a planet that is using this. Why? Because it means that I will be able to take the entire fleet, and the planet that it is defending, in a single turn. Having to attack ships one at a time can easily use up all of an attacker's movement points, buying time for a more powerful fleet to arrive.
Reply #9 Top
1. I'd like to see better sorting/viewing options here too.

2. You can build endless OFMs (1 per planet) - the AIs love them at times and I usually decommission them immediately to reduce maintenance, since I think they're useless. I don't exactly like the idea of needing an OFM to defend a planet as a fleet, but I usually don't defend my planets ON the planets anyways - I defend with roaming fleets. I think many players do too. So, not an issue. Kind of a player bonus since it's more likely an AI will waste a valuable tile on this structure.

3. There are threads talking about the lack of value of morale buildings, and here you want to remove one reason for actually using them!

5. Sort of agree. No idea why industrial capacity isn't set to 100% by default - it's probably the most common choice of players.

6. Use blind exploration (DA).

7. Disagree and it's easy enough to crank out whatever ship types you want in a hurry early, minus transports that you aren't supposed to have early anyways. Starting with a transport would be ridiculous.

8. Would be nice - on larger maps it can be a hassle to find them.

10. It would be nice if custom race creation was more flexible - for ex, it'd be nice to be able to get similar abilities that some stock races have (+mini) or it'd be nice to be able to trade "attribute points" for more tech points.

11. Well, I'm not sure, but I think that the stock races "spend" their att points too for any given game, and by keeping these as optional it means you *could* face some AIs that don't have maxed +econ and/or +morale, making for some variety. But I do think the fact that certain attribues seem to be highly popular and might indicate a flaw.

13. Rallypoints...can be deleted (at least wth DA) by clicking on them on the map and selecting "disband". I don't think your other comment would be useful for most players.

14. Agreed and if memory serves, this is something being considered.
Reply #10 Top
2) Ships defending planets --> Unless using an Orbital Fleet Manager, defensive ships are basically taking turns lining up to be killed by the invading forces; there is no logical reason why they should do this that I can see. The OFM is okay, I guess, but the space required to build it on makes it less appealing, much less the fact that it's unique. So, only one planet in the empire has clued in to the idea of a coordinated defense? I suggest, as an alternative, that the OFM be removed from the game, and instead, make *all* planets' defense forces defend as a fleet. This will change invasion tactics drastically, granted, but not for the worse IMHO.


It is unique on a per planet basis, ghost, like the power plants or the RCC.
So you can always set up orbital fleet defenses, if you are willing to afford the tile. Unfortunately, finances have become so severe a problem to manage that you generally CANNOT afford the tile in comparison to a Stock Market or another Lab.

There needs to be some rebalancing (again) of essential requirements vs typical tiles, so that a typical 13-tile developed planet in a high-level game can be balanced for basic needs with a tile or two left over. Then you should be making decisions between using that last space for a Galactic Achievement, an Orbital Fleet Manager, a Planetary Defense complex, or one more X. You have to do this now, but in my experience the appropriate answer is almost always 'one more Stock Market', at least until very late in the game when you probably don't have a threat to core planets anyway.

BTW, in my experience, the Planetary Defence complex is generally a better buy than the OFM, with the defense fleet forming up just OUTSIDE planetary orbit.

drrider
Reply #11 Top
Actually I'd like NO ships on the start. That would actually force you to decide how you were going to start the game.

Would it be worth building scouting ships? I don't know. Along with that, I'd love to see colony ships be more expensive, so that I can't just spam them out instead of scouting...
Reply #12 Top
After my 1st 2 games I decided that pure scouts weren't worth the yard space. However, I research Sensors and Ions very early and then get some extra scout/surveys out there. Anomalies can stretch the bank account for a loong time.

drrider
Reply #13 Top
13) Rallypoints --> There should be a way to delete rallypoints (is there a way?) A way to send all ships of a certain class to a rallypoint would be useful. The option to send *all* ships period is less than useful.


From the v1.7 Beta 1 Changelog:

+ NEW: Governor that sends all ships of a specified class, and the colonies building that ship class, to target a given rallypoint

Awesome! Thank you for listening, Stardock.
Reply #14 Top
After my 1st 2 games I decided that pure scouts weren't worth the yard space. However, I research Sensors and Ions very early and then get some extra scout/surveys out there. Anomalies can stretch the bank account for a loong time.


Agreed. Of course, I imagine Scouts would be more useful if you got one free at the start of the game.

Really, my suggestion for a different starting fleet is mainly to mix things up a bit. It would make the game more interesting strategically if we were forced to work with different starting parameters. In addition to where one is on the map, what planetary tile bonuses, this would go a long way toward making each game a unique experience (well, more so than they already are).
Reply #15 Top
this would go a long way toward making each game a unique experience (well, more so than they already are).


Yea, glad you got that parenthetical in there, ghost.

And TA is coming...

drrider
Reply #16 Top
Sadly, none of this was implemented in TA (other than 13, which was implemented in DA, thankfully).