Paradoxnt Paradoxnt

Phase Highways in space is a bad game concept!

Phase Highways in space is a bad game concept!

I really don't like the beta's Phase Highway system. There should be no artificially forced space highways in the game. Okay, I've said it. My friends and I were really hoping that this game would use a less constricting movement system more like MOO or Rebellion for traveling between gravity wells.

The Phase Highway concept has been bugging me since I've started playing the beta. I've been quiet about it till now (mostly) because the beta has a lot of potential in other areas. But if we don't say anything about the Phase Highways now, they will be guaranteed to be included in the final release.

Also, these developers really want to hear us. They don't want us to say "yeah, the beta is just awesome" but then we don't buy the final release because we don't like it.

Games like Space Empires and Empires at War have their own versions of Phase Highways. The problem is that they kind of suck because of it. The concept of Phase Highways has been done to death in past games. Modders especially complain about them (check out the recent modding posts in the Space Empire Forums), because forcing players to use space highways mean that they can't make proper mods for Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, and so on.

By getting rid of Phase Highway limitations, SoaSE will be purchased by ALL of the space modders out there. I know for a fact that the talented Evillejedi from the Homeworld 2 Star Wars mod is keeping his eye on SoaSE to see if it has any potential. The game would also see a serious increase of its shelf life because of all of the modding potential made possible.

The Phase Highway concept is used because game designers think that players need short term goals in order not to get bored/discouraged. They also think that the average player's intelligence can't handle too many choices at once. They really should acknowledgment that SciFi gamers are smarter than other gamers and that we would welcome more choice and potential. Besides, players can still choose to play on small maps if they want.

Let's briefly examine how the game could work without using any Phase Highways and instead allowed ships to travel wherever they wanted to go. Of course, Phase Space itself should still be the means of traveling between gravity wells as it is a good game concept.


-To see the other destination gravity wells in your home star system, Astronomy could become a researchable technology. The higher the level you have in Astronomy, the further your planets/asteroids/ships could see possible gravity well destinations.

-Allies should share gravity well destination points. Hmmm, maybe you could even sell/buy gravity well destination points in the trade menu.

-Stars should probably always be valid destination points regardless of your Astronomy Tech level, since they are so easy to see. Hmmm, you might make it so you have to jump to another star before you can initially see any of the planets in its orbit (somewhat realistic even).

-There should be an option to turn off Astronomy and allow players to see all planets/asteroids. Players would then be able to jump to whatever destination they wanted right from the start. This would mostly be used by modders and professional multiplayers.

-Some people might worry that defensive strategies without Phase Lanes would become impossible. This simply isn't the case. With sensors (and audio warnings), you can be warned of incoming enemy fleets as the beta already does. Defending players should be able to see the destination point of the incoming fleet. If they are trying to reach your inner planets by bypassing your outer worlds, you'll be able to send a suitable intercept fleet to the contested system. Your fleet is going to be closer and so will arrive first. If certain ships can be equipped with Phase Space Inhibitors, that would prevent invading fleets from endlessly jumping around in your back lines. Of course, you could also build Phase Space Inhibitor platforms in your back lines as well to prevent leapfrogging hostile fleets.

*Modders should have the option of removing the long range warning sensors that show incoming enemy ships to help them build more accurate mods. Or possibly make them a research option.

-If people have trouble dealing with multiple incoming fleets...well, they realistically should have trouble sending interception fleets to deal with multiple attacking empires at once. Still, SoaSE has a good AI, and your ships can handle themselves while you are focusing elsewhere. So handling multiple incoming attackers at once won't be as fatal for you as it would be in other lesser games.

-I suppose that Phase Space travel speed could be slowed down a bit if players find they have trouble organizing multiple defense and attack fleets. You might even allow a research tech that messes with Phase Space and slows travel through it. Or your ships might be allowed to travel a bit faster when traveling in Phase Space inside your empire's borders (they would have a better grasp of local phase space conditions).

-Finally, if absolutely necessary, the distance ships can jump in Phase Space could be tied to a tech level. The higher the tech level, the further your ships can jump. I know you don't want to use Anti Matter as a limiter for Phase Space jumps, so I didn't bother mentioning a fuel range.

So, please remove the Phase Space Highways. They are standing between this game being a good game, and one of those all time great games that set the benchmark for years to come. Please tell me Blair that you guys are considering doing this.

Posters who've read this and agree with me, now is the time for you to speak up. They might be able to make a serious gameplay change like this now, but they won't be able to do it when the game nears release.
76,051 views 211 replies
Reply #201 Top
Hey 1SPartan. "Blowing up the GW"? I think you are getting confused here. The super sized Gravity Well idea is already out. I mean, you can still do it, but not as a means of creating an effective open connection map.

Yarlen told us that Ironclad has no plans (at this time) of giving us modders the tools necessary to use a single super sized gravity well for all planets and stars. By tools, I mean the ability to phase travel from one point to another within a single gravity well, as well as giving phase space inhibitors a small range instead of a gravity well wide effect.

So there won't be any blown up Gravity Well mods as a means of getting around the Phase Lane system.

What I was actually talking about in the above posts was an alternative way of making open connection or semi-open connection maps. If we can make (and use) customized maps, there is no real reason why we can't directly interlink all planets/asteroids inside each star system. We could even then choose to link stars in series (as in core game) or totally interlink them all. Hell, we could probably even directly interlink EVERY gravity well on a customized map.

To do this, the only things that Ironclad will need to allow us is the ability to make (and use) customized maps, and the ability to manually link up whatever gravity wells we see fit while creating/editing such a map. I just don't see Ironclad not allowing us to do this.
Reply #202 Top
@Para - the last part of your post is what I was talking in my post after the "super GW" comment. This is so because it would seem to be the most logical path.
Reply #203 Top
Ah, understood.
Reply #204 Top
What I was actually talking about in the above posts was an alternative way of making open connection or semi-open connection maps. If we can make (and use) customized maps, there is no real reason why we can't directly interlink all planets/asteroids inside each star system. We could even then choose to link stars in series (as in core game) or totally interlink them all. Hell, we could probably even directly interlink EVERY gravity well on a customized map.

To do this, the only things that Ironclad will need to allow us is the ability to make (and use) customized maps, and the ability to manually link up whatever gravity wells we see fit while creating/editing such a map. I just don't see Ironclad not allowing us to do this.


As long as there is not a hard limit on the total number of phase lanes &/or number of phase lanes that can attach to a specific location - the total # of lanes on a fully connected map will increase by (n-1) for each new location added (15 locations = 105 lanes)(1+2+3...+14)
Reply #205 Top
As I have said before, that is fine by me if they will allow us to connect every planet within a system and connect the stars as we see fit and then hide the lanes. I would also like to be able to manually create trade routes from within the game with a further is better mechanism in place.
Reply #206 Top
I doubt they would purposely put in a hard limit on phase lane connections just to spite modders.
Reply #207 Top
Sure I agree with you and I hope did not think i was implying they would. Sometimes there are technical reasons why things dont happen they way they should for games in order to lower the minimum specks for the average person. There are of course other companies like Creative Assembly (CA) for example, that purposely build in limits and put restrictions on several levels under the misguided justification that it is in order to protect its franchise.
Reply #208 Top
I didn't mean to imply that the dev's would arbitrarily put in a limit - just that having a massive number of phase lanes might have hardware, AI processing, &/or some other ramifications that could make the game unplayable. For example: too many choices might make the AI suffer "analysis paralysis", meaning such maps would be suitable only for multiplayer with humans only. But another might be that the amount of data that needs to be sent over the network(s) might end up so large that the transmission lags would become unacceptable over typical connections. Now I'm not a programmer (at least not at this level of expertise) so those examples might be totally wrong - but I've been around enough to realize that if you have something that is open-ended a number of unforseen "Oh, by the way" situations will occur. (I generally refer to these as "knock-on" or "cascade" effects in real life - think dominoes.)
Reply #209 Top
Hey SrGarlen, I admit that these customized 'open connection' maps are going to be more for multiplayer than anything else. AI players might be tossed into the mix for fun, but the experience will still be more for modders and elite multiplayers.

You mention some concern about PC processing strain of so many phase lanes. If necessary (or if you prefer), you could make the contents of star systems open/fully connected, but have the star to star phase lane connections in series. This would both help the AI and reduce PC processing strain.
Reply #210 Top
We're in agreement here - I was only suggesting that tech issues may raise their ugly head(s) and trolling for dev feedback on same.

And the interstellar phase lane / interplanetary freestyle format is one that will break the overall map into manageable regions as well as provide the opportunity to engage in economic empire building with some degree of operational security.

Reply #211 Top

And the interstellar phase lane / interplanetary freestyle format is one that will break the overall map into manageable regions as well as provide the opportunity to engage in economic empire building with some degree of operational security.


Yep. We are in agreement here - It may be moot at this point but "case closed".