Why should custom civs have to be weaker than built-in civs?

If you're not a metaverse junky, you could just do what I did and go modify the RaceConfig.xml file to give custom races 25pts. While you're at it, modify AbilityBonus.xml and add in Miniaturization and Logistics.

If you want my opinion on why these weren't in there by default, I'd say game balance. They couldn't account for how damn ingenious the player base is when it comes to min/maxing to create that "Unbeatable Uber Race."

15pts is a balance. Those that want to exploit the system are limited, and those of us who just want to play something different aren't at THAT much of a disadvantage since we still have a brain and can take advantage of the AI's deficiencies.

I use that 25pts to make worthwhile custom races to play against. The AI is already handicapped enough by it's nature. No reason to make it worse by limiting them to 15pts.

I have solved that one with a Mod that I'm going to bring out soon balancing various races even the custom race so they are all equall

Weaker? I wonder what you are basing that on. All I ever play is a custom race and I have no problems defeating the built in races. While it is true that for specific strategies the regular races can be stronger and have bonuses that the custom race cannot get. However I've never felt my race is underpowered compared to the regular races.

Thanks for the tip! I always wanted to make a race with uber military and social production capabilites!

BTW, speaking of the custom races, they should make the game so that the custom opponents you design have unlimited ability and tech points, so that way you can go against a set of Dread Lord-like opponents if you wish.  

BTW again (LOL!), do you know how to modify the starting tech points you receive? I want to try to create an opponent with a few more techs than usual as well.

Buh? The built-in races are pretty much unbalanced against one another as it is. Take, for instance, The Yor. Take a look at all those bonuses. And that's without the extra +10 points! How's a custom race supposed to compete? And you're saying the AI is stupid? I do not think so. I think it's unfair that custom races should be so crippled. It's like a punishment for not choosing a race the developers came up with and designed.

I agree. My custom race does quite well, as does the custom AI opponent(s). In fact, my custom AI opponent often cleans the clock of the other AI's around. Granted, I put this AI at +1 intelligence level higher than the other civs on the map, but I usually have at least 2 other civs at that same intelligence level and I have yet to see my custom AI get beat down. They seem to dominate every game militarily, whoop the Drengin and Korath, and have beaten me back into a surrender as well.

I would like to give my custom AI some extra abilities and some extra techs myself. Since I don't do any metaverse stuff, maybe I'll just go in and 'fix' things Thanks for the tip on that btw

I think that the custom race points works out fine. Yeah, it may not be fair, but I always use a custom race and usually clean house on challenging (finishing up a game and then going to go up a difficulty lvl....*eek!*)

I think DA balanced custom races of your own with the custom opponents you can make.

What bothers me is that I like to have random opponents but want to exclude custom races from the pool of possible randoms (this is in metaverse, I don't play normal single player.) Is there a way to do that?

You can modify the raceconfig file to add anything you want to your race after the fact. Also there are .xml files for all the standard races as well. So those can be modified to suit whatever you want to do. Just have a look at the files or check out the Modders forums for tips and formatting. Everything in this game is meant to be customizable. So save for a few *under the hood* things that are game play mechanics you can adjust this game to the point where you can make an entirely new game out of it. Frogboy has joked in several posts that this isn't a game its a 4x space strategy engine .

I find it amusing at times when players want to prop up a particular race as having *uber* bonuses. Take the Yor example given. Sure they've got a few nifty bonuses that a custom race cannot select legally. But I've never had them in a game where they dominate the map. Normally they are being picked on by the other empires mine included.

The only 2 races that give me trouble at times if I don't stay on top of them are the Dregin and the Thalan. Dregin because they typically force me to switch to military production earlier then I like to. Thalan because they seem to colonize faster then I prefer. Still even those two can be handled by my custom race it just takes a bit of strategy modification on my part.

And on the issue of *balance* lets keep in mind that word is a bit over used. Balanced does not mean that every race is the same and be played the same. Balanced in this context means that every race has a chance to win any given game. That is provided that you play to the strengths of the race and not try to force it into a particular strategy that it is ill suited for. Also keep in mind that certain AIs are actually coded to be weaker at playing the game then others. No amount of racial bonus manipulation will change that.

My take: While the built in civs have extra bonuses, you are stuck with those bonuses. With a custom races, you can create anything you want to work on a concentrated strategy you may have. I can definetely see why the devs lowered racial bonuses for custom races. Otherwise, like the manual says, why even use a default race?

Stock races have 9-10 points, a slew of built-in bonuses, some of which you can't replicate with points, and often have more tech than you can start with as a custom race. Custom races get 15 pts instead of 9 or 10. Those extra 5-6 points don't come close to matching the firepower stock races usually have in terms of abilities and techs.

Most stock abilities that you get "stuck with" are things you'd want anyways. 9-10 points of customizing a powerful stock race goes a long way.

ok, so give custom races no more than 20 points. The bottom line is you still want to make the default races attractive; otherwise like MOO2, no one in there right mind would use a default race unless they wanted more of a challenge.