Xeno Entertainment vs. Stock Exchanges

Nope. Stock exchanges are now way way way way too too good...

For the way they gutted the morale buildings, they should eliminate the stock exchange morale bonus.

I'm beginning to think this game will NEVER be balanced out correctly. (other than the diligent efforts of the modders out there)

So long as there are goofy imbalances like this that the AI doesn't take advantage of, the game will continue to disappoint. This is what kills me. This game has so much more potential. Just balance the game you already designed and teach the AI to use the features already in the game. I can't imagine buying an expansion when the original game is just getting where it should have been when it was released.

Stock exchanges are now way way way way too too good...

Please do not make comments like this or the developers will nerf stock exchanges  

The problem is they went totally overboard on nerfing morale buildings and neutral learning centers and mining resources...

out of the 1.3 planetimprovement.xml file:

Stock Market -> Morale 10, economy 25, prestige 5, Cost 120, Maint cost 1

Multimedia Center (needs Xeno Entertainment tech, so I am assuming this is what you mean) -> Morale 10, Cost 100, Maint cost 2

Pretty clear Stock Markets are the way to go between these 2 choices, but don't forget there are 3 more advanced morale buildings with higher morale improvements.

Stock exchanges also appear to increase morale by 10% (it doesn't say that in the galactopedia

Galactopedia does say that stock exchanges give +25% economy, +10% morale, and +5% influence.

If a player really feels the game is unbalanced, they can mod it make it more balanced to their liking. Of course they are giving up Metaverse then.

I do agree that the nerfing of the morale buildings is puzzling. Personally I didn't see the need to build them before and still don't see any need for them.

Please do not make comments like this or the developers will nerf stock exchanges

LMAO

Maybe they should make the basic moral building, Multimedia Center, 12% isntead of 10???

Also you got to take into consideration that your comparing a level 4 building with a level 1 building. The problem is that it is better to spend the money on researching stock markets now, than building multimedia centers out of the bat, you could do without building moral buildings until you get stock markets, then rush research the 2nd generation of moral buildings, but I still believe that wasting time researching moral buildings on the begining of the game is not a good idea, so just build a bunch of stock markets, you will do fine with 1 farm. Anyways, Stock markets are WAY too cheap for the 4th generation, and only have 1 maintanance, compared to the 1st generation of moral buildings, wich have 2 maintanance as SrGalen posted, and that doesnt make any sense at all.


Monc34

you got to take into consideration that your comparing a level 4 building with a level 1 building

Definitely agree here.

The cost of researching up to Stock Exchanges has been increased but even so I'd rather spend time researching stock exchanges and build the stock exchange than build any morale building whatsoever.

Although I almost never build morale buildings, I still research the morale tech branch relatively early simply to get the total 25% ability bonus to morale that this branch provides.

If you never build morale buildings, then how do you keep you people happy AND have enough people (farms) for a broad tax base? I usually build two moral buildings for every farm.

never build morale buildings

This is my view when playing 1.3. Don't waste a planet tile on a morale specific building. Build a stock exchange instead. I now rely on taking +20% morale ability bonus, populist party +10% morale, get all the morale wonders, get all the morale mining resources (I will go to war now over a morale resource) and research the morale tech just for the + morale bonuses.

do agree that the nerfing of the morale buildings is puzzling. Personally I didn't see the need to build them before and still don't see any need for them.

Yep, they r nearly as useless and worthless as the Galactic Guide Book.      

gallagher seems to be the type of moron who believes stating a vague problem as easily fixed will make it so.

In the early and mid-game, before you have researched stock exchanges the pure morale buildings can be advantageous. However once you research stock exchanges, the wise person would build over his pure morale buildings with stock exchanges.

If you never build morale buildings, then how do you keep you people happy AND have enough people (farms) for a broad tax base?

Short answer -- mining resources both morale and economy
Haven't ever had to get by without them myself but probably could.

Aggressive use of survey ships to get extra cash during the colony rush -- I get 3 up and running by turn 8 with 3 impulse engines and 3 basic life support on them.
Give me a +700% research tile on my homeworld and that'll be turn 6.

Upgraded government type helps too.

Fill up all extra squares with either markets ( 30 build & +8%econ ), advanced markets ( 40 build & +10%econ ), or trade centers ( 50 build & +15%econ ) -- as soon as possible ( right after putting in facories or even at the same time )
And of course upgrade them to stock markets as soon as possible.

Build 3-4 factory buildings/planet -- I like 4 -- except of course, have a few high production planets but not too many
Only build labs on tech bonus tiles and tech cap world ( or don't even build em at all -- never actually had the guts to try it but probably the most efficient ) ( just use focus for research )( I do buy 2 labs on my homeworld on the first 2 turns but they get paved over with stock markets )

I never waste ability points on economy or morale anymore. Spending cash is usually very inefficient
( except to repair a ship's HPs via upgrading ).

I don't establish trade routes either.

I'm able to have enough extra income/turn, a 69% tax rate , and fill up a transport with 3K troops whenever morale dips below 100%.

just my 2bc

Please do not make comments like this or the developers will nerf stock exchanges

Yep, they will (i'm not kidding) nerf it down to giving only a 5% economy bonus... if were lucky enough to get that much.  

gallagher seems to be the type of moron who believes stating a vague problem as easily fixed will make it so.

Maybe so. What's sad is the way the developers have failed to play test and balance the game. That was my point. It is quite obvious that stock exchanges rule. Once you get them, you tend to win the game.

By the way how is it a vague problem ? (the only real problem is that the AI doesn't evaluate the tech tree / bonuses adequately to spot how good stock exchanges are)

well even though stock exchanges give moral bonus, i still need to atleast reseach the moral buildings tech, everytime i research one of them my moral also climbs even without building the new buildings. i really want that bonus to.

I'm a bit puzzled why they nerfed morale buildings. I'm equally puzzled why they choked farm buildings. Personally, I'd rather they hadn't made any of the changes to game mechanics they did in 1.3. Aside from the bugs, I think 1.2 was a better game. Anyway, morale buildings are worthless in the 1.3 version. Put your effort into mining morale resources and obtaining stock exchanges. It's still worthwhile to research entertainment though. You can always use the trade goods.

Don't forget that just having the morale techs gives a morale bonus.

I do agree that the nerfing of the morale buildings is puzzling. Personally I didn't see the need to build them before and still don't see any need for them.

Fully agreed. I built them on large planets with a planned population of 100b, but even that is no longer worth it.

If you never build morale buildings, then how do you keep you people happy AND have enough people (farms) for a broad tax base? I usually build two moral buildings for every farm.

I only use morale buildings to "even" out the morale on planets that lag behind the others. For example in the early colony rush I might build a multimedia center on my home planet to compensate for the fact that it has a higher pop than all my colonies.

I think it's far more effective to use the global sources of morale to lift the average level of morale throughout my empire. This includes morale resource mining (if I can get them), the 25% bonus to morale ability you get from researching the morale branch of the tech tree, the 57% total bonus from the wonders (Harmony Crystals, Ultra Spices, Virtual Reality Modules, Frictionless Clothing), plus I always get either the 20% or 25% morale racial ability. Finally you get a 10% morale bonus if you play neutral (which I usually do).

I also "pace" the building and upgrading of farms with my current level of morale ability. By the time I've gotten all the techs and wonders listed above plus a single morale resource to mine, I'm done. In v1.2 you didn't even really need the morale resource to stabilize pop at 15B on all your planets using a single advanced farm. With v1.3 it's a bit tougher, you can use a single advanced farm for 12B per planet or two advanced farms for 19B per planet. You'll probably need an extra morale resource to mine to keep the 19B happy.

All this is presuming a tax rate of 79% with approval at 100% on all planets pretty much throughout the entire game. If you miss a wonder or two, or if you don't have any morale resources to mine you can simply lower your tax rate a bit and accept maybe a 90% approval.

If you can do this globally, why would you waste 2 to 4 tiles on every planet in your empire that you could use to increase your economy, or production, or research, or all three?

I'm beginning to think this game will NEVER be balanced out correctly. (other than the diligent efforts of the modders out there)

From what I can tell, the devs are constantly trying to add updates and such to appease the hardcore players of this game. Is this correct? If so, kudos for their efforts but they have to stop. Make any additions and such based on player feedback available as expansion packs, not more and more beta patches and downloads. I used to think the game itself sucked, but that isn't so. It is their efforts to make us happy, and in the end, I fear that it is working against them, so to speak. Again, if I am right about the devs trying to appease the masses, they have to stop it. Please. Just add new things to expansion packs. Period.

Maybe they should make the basic moral building, Multimedia Center

Actually, Multimedia is the level 2 building - Entertainment Network is the level 1 and has 5 morale, 55 cost, and 1 maint

At the moment I must agree. Building any type of Morale based building is pointless.

Sometimes things are nerfed because its needed, in order to make items within the game take more of an active roll within said game. In this case, In order to make morale buildings do what they intended, stock markets need to be nerfed.

Personally, I kind of like the spice of an ever changing set of rules. They tweak the game, it forces one to tweak their strategy.

Actually, Multimedia is the level 2 building - Entertainment Network is the level 1 and has 5 morale, 55 cost, and 1 maint

Bahh, nitpicking, nitpicking    

I agree, sorry for that, my bad.


Monc34

Well, the only problem I really see with the original post on this thread is that you are comparing the best economic building with the worst entertainment building... hardly fair. Later on in the game, the entertainment buildings give you more morale.

I still use the Stock Exchanges, as the are still the way to go in my opinion.

gallagher.

No, saying that stock markets are better than morale buildings is not vague. Implying though that fixing that one problem plus balancing the rest of the game plus designing a.i. that takes maximum advantage of all mechanics in the game and still expect the game to offer any options at all, which was the gist of your original foolish post, is dumb.