I hope I'm wrong ...

from GalCiv2 Forums
but IMHO v1.3 beta 3 has made morale buildings totally useless.

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+ Entertainment Network
Morale bonus lowered from 25 to 10

+ Multimedia Center
Morale bonus lowered from 30 to 15

+ Extreme Stadium
Morale bonus lowered from 45 to 25

+ Zero G Sports Arena
Morale bonus lowered from 50 to 33

+ Virtual Reality Center
Morale bonus lowered from 60 to 40


Considering that the morale buildings effect is multiplied by base morale and base morale at the critical 25B point is 20%, the "real" morale effect of a VRC was 12% which now becomes 8%. That, in conjunction with the reduction in the top line farm to support only 7B people, essentially means that 19B has probably become the defacto max pop on any planet. Currently, keeping 19B happy can be accomplished with a bit of racial morale ability plus the morale techs and a few of the wonders. So in this case there's really no need to ever build another morale building.

Like I said in the title I hope I'm wrong. If perhaps the morale buildings bonuses were lowered as stated but were now applied directly instead of being multiplied by base morale, then this would be a definite improvement.

The crux of the problem is that base morale has a triple effect on morale. First it's used directly. Secondly it multiplies the effect of morale buildings, and thirdly it multiplies total civilization bonuses (to the 0.75 power). The actual effect of this is an extremely sharp curve that basically means you can pretty much ignore it below a pop of 21B and it pretty much consumes entire PQ32 planets with nothing but farms and VRC's at 25B. And this was before nerfing both farms and morale buildings.

Please, someone tell me I'm wrong.
3,419 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your wrong. I am not sure why, or how, and i have no proof to contradict you, but yah, your wrong. Feel better?
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Your wrong. I am not sure why, or how, and i have no proof to contradict you, but yah, your wrong. Feel better?


Actually you did make me laugh. Thanks

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
With that big increase (300 to 500) in the cost of the NLC, we need the advanced factories fixed.

I avoid building/upgrading to Manufacturing Centers as long as possible but eventually I need advanced factory techs in order to further build up my mining resources. The AI on the other hand will race to the advanced factories, thus slowing down its planetary build up. In fact the AI will terraform to unlock new tiles on its planets without factories and with many empty tiles!!! The AI should build a factory first on each planet and it should not terraform until all free tiles are used up!

In v1.2 the output of the Manufacturing Centers and Industrial Sectors was reduced.
Enhanced Factory 10, 100 (Output, Cost)
Manufacturing Center 11, 200
Industrial Sector 16, 400
I suggest:
Manufacturing Center 14, 200
Industrial Sector 20, 400
that way the output increases by about 40% and cost by 100% for each upgrade.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Those changes are simultaneously surprising and interesting. I suspect they'll be a boon to the AI, since humans generally use their population better (invasions). Farming will also be more useful, which will mean more researching and, consequently, less research time available for other things (e.g., weapons). It's probably more realistic, though, since I can't imagine a real planet with 90 billion people on it and nothing but entertainment parlors.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
With that big increase (300 to 500) in the cost of the NLC, we need the advanced factories fixed.


Not quite sure how this relates to morale and farm changes in v1.3 beta 3 or how a NLC cost increase provides any extra reason to fix the broken factory upgrade path, but I do agree with you that the factory upgrade path is broken. But it's not just the factory upgrade path that's broken.

The way I have dealt with this is to immediately turn off the auto upgrade feature on every planet that I colonize, conquer or flip. Since there's no global feature to do this (hint, hint) I have to go three menus deep into every planet I own. That way when I start down a research path (for example factories), I can wait until I reach my ultimate goal before I go back and schedule the upgrade. This avoids the thrashing that would otherwise occur as each of my planets immediately starts building the first upgrade during which time I've researched the second then it starts building that one, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

This applies to all the planetary building upgrade paths (farms, research, economic, morale). Yet another downside is that you can't simply go back after completing the research on a branch and re-enable the auto upgrade feature, it simply doesn't work (at least in v1.2). You have to go through all your planets (maybe close to 500) and individually select each tile that you want to upgrade. What a pain.

Another problem is that once you've researched an upgrade in technology the old building is no longer available to build. Building a Enhanced Factory on a newly conquered planet would be a useful thing to do before upgrading to say Manufacturing Center instead of having no industry on the planet until a Manufacturing Center can be built. However, if I get to Doom Ray for example, I still have every single lower end beam weapon available to place on the new Dreadnought I design. I would much rather have old tech buildings available and have all the out of date weapons and defense not cluttering up the shipyard menus.

I really would like a response from someone from Stardock on these (I feel) very legitimate points that I bring up, but if history is any guide I won't. Oh well.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I really would like a response from someone from Stardock... but if history is any guide I won't.


Would you like a bandage for that big hole you just shot in your foot?   

The devs do occasionally provide direct answers in here, usually in the form of Kryo's commentary. Try Stardock's IRC, too - just be brief.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Would you like a bandage for that big hole you just shot in your foot?


I've tried waiting and that didn't work. I've tried humor and that didn't work. I've tried pleading and that didn't work. Sarcasm probably won't work any better than anything else but it can do no worse.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I have a question, with those changes to morale buildings has getting a planet to the 100b mark been nerfed completely?  

I, only recently got used to the fact that any PQ 18+ could be built up to 100b population at 80% tax rate.

Had a nice strategy PQ 18+ = 100b pop., PQ 9 -17 15b eco. planets, PQ 8- 5b trade goods, galactic achievments, wonders etc...

Will I after rethink my plans in 1.3 final.  
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As I've noted before, it's a matter of budget and priority. I agree that some things need tweaking myself but I don't have source access, I'm just the forum guy.

AFAIK, Brad made what changes were made for 1.3b3 himself based on his own thoughts. If one of you wants to compile an official list of tech tree/improvement "problems" and email them to me (click my name above and use the email option in the menu), I'll post it somewhere for the devs to find easily for when they are able to look at it.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Sorry for the double post, but with those new morale stats, especially...
+ Entertainment Network
Morale bonus lowered from 25 to 10

+ Multimedia Center
Morale bonus lowered from 30 to 15


Won't new players struggle with the economy hump in the early game? It's going to be murder getting a positive income at a decent morale level?
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
guh. Well time to re-learn my start and how to adjust my economy and i was just starting to get incomes over 10k
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
AFAIK, Brad made what changes were made for 1.3b3 himself based on his own thoughts. If one of you wants to compile an official list of tech tree/improvement "problems" and email them to me (click my name above and use the email option in the menu), I'll post it somewhere for the devs to find easily for when they are able to look at it.


I'll take that action item if you all don't mind. I'll wait awhile to allow other 1.3b3 complaints to filter in and then I'll try to condense them down to their essence into a single concise email.

BTW. I do understand the difficulty of the support logistics for a forum such as this. Clearly it's impossible to respond to every single thread clamoring for attention. I truly do appreciate your response.
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
BACK to the original poster :

Dear god I hope you're wrong too... Maybe they changed the happyness equation too, that would be the only thing that would make sense of this.

As you've pointed out, there was little reason to bother with entertainment centers except for 25B+ planets, now it sounds like planets that populated are pretty much impossible with any decent tax rate.

Which would mean even less diversity / decision making in the game. I was personally enjoying building up 75B planets on the side...
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Well, I for one do not like the new farm structure, especially since the last two levels are not available.
I like my planets at 15B, and with the lowering of the production there is no way to do it with a single farm anymore. I used to get 1 Advanced Farm on each planet, which now only yields 12B. 2 would be too many, and a combination of two other farms would probably not work out right either.

If one thing is going to be changed so much, then why were the other farm levels not put in at the same time???


I also agree that 500 for the NLC is a bit over the top. I don't disagree with the cost increase, but now it is way out of proportion in the other direction.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Mumblefratz, here's my $0.02 for your list. I hope the data collection goes well.

Farm Improvements: Please add the last two missing levels of farms. Also, Basic and Intensive farming use the same graphic icon; this gets confusing when you have too many planets to manage.

Morale Improvements: The last two, Zero-Grav and VR centers, have always been very expensive. Now it seems that our economy will become weaker, while these improvements give a much smaller morale bonus. Please lower the prices for these improvements commensurately.

Factory Improvements: If the Enhanced Factory has an output of 10 and the Industrial Center an output of 16, shouldn't the Manufacturing Center have an output of 13? Its cost is exactly between the two others, but its current output level of 11 makes it extremely counterproductive to build. As it is, I really hate it when my agents steal this tech, because it means I have to drop everything else and rush to develop the next level in order to get something worthwhile.

I currently do the same with banks/stock markets - thank you for fixing those two.

Edit - I just DL'd the beta and checked out the xml. Manufacturing Centers are at 12 output now. Meh. I can live with that.