Father Daughter talk

That actually is very good Brad!!!

College grades aren't the best example, but the message is clear cut!

Thanks for sharing.

BAM!!!

Very nice analogy! Will be one I share in future discussions, no doubt.

Sarah

HAHA!

Great story, thanks for forwarding it to us.

Perhaps a better question: "Why not help Mary by spending study time with her, perhaps you could get her grade up." Welcome to the Democratic Party.

Nice article... Stevendedalus, that's like saying that the democratic party encourages tycoons to tutor bums. It just doesn't happen.

~Dan

It's a nice message in theory, too bad I dont think its very grounded in reality.

The Republican party may have once been for lowering taxes, and less government, but they certainly havent been for the last 20 years. They have raised taxes, and made more goverment agencies, and in the last 4 years especially they have taken away lots of our civil rights (not just the lazy people who dont study and go to parties).

If you really want lesser taxes, Welcome to the Libertarian party.

If you really think that the only people who are disadvantaged are lazy partiers, welcome the the Not Paying Attention to Reality party. Lots of people dont have a fair shake in life, and if there arent things that help them, they WILL turn to things that could end up hurting you. Why not? They dont have anything to lose.

And you dont care, you want your $350 tax rebate so you can can buy... Um, not that much anymore, cause most things arent made in the US and the US dollar is doing horribly around the world, and more and more jobs are being sent out of the US and the goverment (Republicans?) arent doing anything to regulate how US companies can fire all their US workers.

Plus theres things like the environment, which dont really matter anyway, because you can pollute all you want, and it doesnt really ever actually do anything bad. Anyone who cares that bad things COULD happen is obviously just a freak who would tie themselves to trees to protect a single spotted owl.

Anyway, I dont consider the Democratic party good either. Or the Libertarians. But, is the Republican party really holding up the ideals in action that is being claimed by this and other propaganda? Is it really making your life any better?

Would your life be any worse if school programs and welfare budgets WERENT cut? Exactly how much would that raise your taxes? How much in comparison to the huge sums of money the government is currently spending to give their CEO friend's companies huge military and post-military grants (sometimes without even allowing other companies to bid, like the Iraq rebuilding Haliburton contracts, now THATS some good savings for the American people Republicans!)

Anyway, just wanted to voice my dissenting opinion that the Republicans are saving you money, and additionally that it is really a good thing anyway. Everyone in this country (and world) is connected. Saving a little more for yourself at the expense of helping others hurts you in subtle ways as well, and sometimes it hits home directly (like your children going off to a pointless war to die, for instance, but I guess now that terrorism is gone for good, it was worth it. Oh wait, they werent even terrorists or connected to them, and the only terrorists in the company were in the part of the country the US controlled, not Saddam).

Perhaps a better question: "Why not help Mary by spending study time with her, perhaps you could get her grade up." Welcome to the Democratic Party.

Should the daughter feel obligated to use her studying time to help Mary study (perhaps do their work for them) who could get a 4.0 as well if only she applied the same amount of effort? Is laziness now some sort of disability for which people are compensated? If so, then where do I sign up for the money train?

Lots of people dont have a fair shake in life, and if there arent things that help them, they WILL turn to things that could end up hurting you.

Last time I checked, there are services out there to help such people. Also, considering that people in bad situations can make it better, (not everybody rich is born rich and some aren't lucky enough to win the lottery either) I don't have much sympathy for others in similar situations that can't cut it.

now that the joke is out of the way, now we deal with republican/democrat daughter reality:

whose daughter(s) were arrested by police? (you may pick more than one choice)

A) al gore
g.w. bush
C) bill clinton
D) jeb bush
.
.
.
.
.
.
no peeking!
.
.
.
.
.
got your answer(s) ready?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
if you picked D) you are correct!

jeb's daughter was jailed for having prescription pills while in a treatment center, violating a court-ordered drug treatment plan.

if you guessed you are wrong. gw's daughters were NOT, repeat NOT, arrested, one was merely cited for alcohol possession.

if you guessed A) be aware that gore's son was arrested, but this question concerns daughter's only.

I looked up Strawman on Google and found this definition:
"a weak or imaginary opposition (as an argument or adversary) set up only to be easily confuted."
Anyone could make up imaginary situations/conversations to support their case....It would not be too hard to think of one against the war in Iraq and another one pro the war. They prove nothing, and nor does this one except that you are conservative and have an imagination.

I think everyone should spend all their time studying, because it's good for society at large.

This email post presupposes that everyone who is rich works hard, and that everyone who is poor is a bum. Shame that reality doesn't fit this email.

Cheers

I would say that as a general rule, those who are wealthy work a lot harder than those who are poor. I can honestly say that I've never met someone who is poor that works full time. And I mean actualy poor not "I can barely afford that second car."

Similarly, I've never met someone who is rich that doesn't work their butt off (i.e. >40 hours per week on average).

At last year's Entrepreneur of the Year awards, as an example, the people I met were much like myself in that we constantly at working and sacrificing. They enjoy building things, providing for their families.  I haven't had a day off in 6 weeks for instance. I worked 12 hours yesterday. Show me a poor person that does that because I certainly haven't met him or her.

I can show you a lot of rich people that don't work, and, as we've argued about before, the poor people I know tend not to be able to get jobs, because either the economy is slow, or the field they've been trained in is lagging. Oh, and I know a half a dozen farmers that make below the poverty line, all of whom, I can almost guarantee work longer, and certainly more arduous hours than you. No offense.

Cheers

You should come to Britain Brad and see how hard some of our peasants work. Although I dislike peasants some of them are stuck in circles of poverty and work far more hours than many of my business associates who around one thousand time richer.

I've never met someone who is rich that doesn't work their butt off (i.e. >40 hours per week on average).

Wow. Maybe it's that I'm recently out of college, but I know a fair number of rich kids who are busy draining their parents' money and not doing anything productive with their lives, because they know that they've got a fat inheritance coming and they'll never need to work. And even though these are the extreme cases, having wealthy parents in general makes it MUCH easier to be successful yourself, and having poor parents makes it harder.

As for the original post--it replies equally well to the Republican party if you think of all the industry subsidies it hands out. Corporate welfare is just as bad as normal welfare.

I can show you a lot of rich people that don't work, and, as we've argued about before, the poor people I know tend not to be able to get jobs, because either the economy is slow, or the field they've been trained in is lagging.

There are probably a lot of rich people that don't work, as they were born in wealthy families, but are they a good example of the average rich person? Also, one has to wonder if these families were always rich or had somebody work their ass off to become rich (or be lucky enough to win the lottery). Wealth has to start somewhere and it's usually either luck (i.e. lottery) or hard work. As for not being able to find a job because the economy is slow, what was their excuse when the economy was great? Also, some jobs don't really require any training, and if they already have experience, then they'll certainly have an easier time getting those jobs than I will.

Oh, and I know a half a dozen farmers that make below the poverty line, all of whom, I can almost guarantee work longer, and certainly more arduous hours than you. No offense.

Farmers don't represent the average poor person though. Since they're such a vital part of society, I don't think anybody would mind helping them out.

It's the strangest thing. Just the other day I saw a discussion right at this very forum about the minimum wage, and I'd swear I saw some people say there that raising the minimum wage would cost millions and millions of jobs. SO obviously, this means millions and millions of people work minimum wage jobs, at MacDonalds and similar places as the example went. I even thought I saw some genuine appreciation for these people working hard for so little money. I guess I was wrong, now all of a sudden they are lazy and simply not applying themselves as much as the rich cats out there.

To say that

as a general rule, those who are wealthy work a lot harder than those who are poor.

is yet another sweeping simplification that renders your whole argument worthless. It is so blatantly untrue in so incredibly many cases that it means absolutely nothing.

At last year's Entrepreneur of the Year awards, as an example, the people I met were much like myself in that we constantly at working and sacrificing. They enjoy building things, providing for their families. I haven't had a day off in 6 weeks for instance. I worked 12 hours yesterday. Show me a poor person that does that because I certainly haven't met him or her.

And I know people who don't have time (or aren't invited) to go to award evenings because it would interfere with their second job, the one they do to be able to provide for their starving families.

Why are farmers such a "vital part of society"? Isnt it the reason farmers are doing it tough the same reason the guy on the factory line making shoes is doing it tough i.e. their goods can be produced cheaper overseas....the only difference that I can see is that farmers still get massive Government protection (welfare) whereas the shoe company has to play on a level playing field, so it sacks the poor old factory worker and ships his job to some struggling 3rd world country.

....sorry, I shouldnt have said 'struggling 3rd world country' after all, it's their own fault for not being as rich as the US, they just dont work hard enough........

Song: For the Love of Money Lyrics (Artist- The O'Jays)

Money money money money, money [x6]
Some people got to have it
Some people really need it
Listen to me y'all, do things, do things, do bad things with it
You wanna do things, do things, do things, good things with it
Talk about cash money, money
Talk about cash money- dollar bills, yall

For the love of money
People will steal from their mother
For the love of money
People will rob their own brother
For the love of money
People can't even walk the street
Because they never know who in the world they're gonna beat
For that lean, mean, mean green
Almighty dollar, money

For the love of money
People will lie, Lord, they will cheat
For the love of money
People don't care who they hurt or beat
For the love of money
A woman will sell her precious body
For a small piece of paper it carries a lot of weight
Call it lean, mean, mean green

Almighty dollar

I know money is the root of all evil
Do funny things to some people
Give me a nickel, brother can you spare a dime
Money can drive some people out of their minds

Got to have it, I really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Some people really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Got to have it, I really need it
How many things have I heard you say
Lay down, lay down, a woman will lay down
For the love of money
All for the love of money
Don't let, don't let, don't let money rule you
For the love of money
Money can change people sometimes
Don't let, don't let, don't let money fool you
Money can fool people sometimes
People! Don't let money, dont let money change you,
it will keep on changing, changing up your mind.


.six weeks without a day off...........sheesh!

It's the strangest thing. Just the other day I saw a discussion right at this very forum about the minimum wage, and I'd swear I saw some people say there that raising the minimum wage would cost millions and millions of jobs. SO obviously, this means millions and millions of people work minimum wage jobs, at MacDonalds and similar places as the example went. I even thought I saw some genuine appreciation for these people working hard for so little money. I guess I was wrong, now all of a sudden they are lazy and simply not applying themselves as much as the rich cats out there.

Where exactly are people calling those who start at entry-level jobs lazy?

is yet another sweeping simplification that renders your whole argument worthless. It is so blatantly untrue in so incredibly many cases that it means absolutely nothing.

And what is to be said of the generalization that poor people are mostly working two jobs to support starving families?

....sorry, I shouldnt have said 'struggling 3rd world country' after all, it's their own fault for not being as rich as the US, they just dont work hard enough........

It probably would have been best not to compare American poor to third world poor. For one, "poor" Americans have many services out there to help them progress.

Perhaps a better question: "Why not help Mary by spending study time with her, perhaps you could get her grade up." Welcome to the Democratic Party.

Pretty much I agree that that is an accurate view of the Democrats with one small tweak. Change it to this: "Perhaps we should FORCE someone to help Mary by spending study time with her and get her grade up."

If the netizens of JoeUser.com are even remotely typical, the ones advocating more government help for "the needy" are the ones who pay little to no taxes. "Heartless" people like me are the ones who pay for the  "compassion" of the left.

It's the strangest thing. Just the other day I saw a discussion right at this very forum about the minimum wage, and I'd swear I saw some people say there that raising the minimum wage would cost millions and millions of jobs. SO obviously, this means millions and millions of people work minimum wage jobs, at MacDonalds and similar places as the example went. I even thought I saw some genuine appreciation for these people working hard for so little money. I guess I was wrong, now all of a sudden they are lazy and simply not applying themselves as much as the rich cats out there.

$8 per hour = $16,000 per year. Hardly "poor". I spent a good chunk of my adult life making that or less.

And I know people who don't have time (or aren't invited) to go to award evenings because it would interfere with their second job, the one they do to be able to provide for their starving families.

Starving? Please. Who do you know that is starving? I'm sorry but if you're starving in the United States then you're either incredibly lazy or incredibly inept. It's virtually impossible to starve. The "poor" in the United STates are the most obese group of poor people in the world.

 

Brad, I invite you take a look at certain statistics by the Department of Health and Human Services. There are a lot of starving people in The United States.

Cheers