Wade_Smith Wade_Smith

Concepts for expansion,Galactic Civilizations 3,or a new game?:Ringworlds,Dyson Spheres,'Spore',Etc.

Concepts for expansion,Galactic Civilizations 3,or a new game?:Ringworlds,Dyson Spheres,'Spore',Etc.

Any ideas? Let's inform Stardock.


(It's a long read but it's worth it.)

Galactic Civilizations 2: Dread Lords is a great Game. If the following concepts are included in Galactic Civilizations, without it being too complex for the player, then it would become a near perfect game... In my humble opinion.
I know that some of these concepts have been mentioned and debated. I'm trying to use "influence" on Stardock. Hence my subtitle: "Any Ideas? Let's inform Stardock."

-researching and constructing Ringworlds Link
and Dyson Spheres (or Dyson Shell, or Sphereworlds).
Link
(see the 'Ringworld' novels by Larry Niven) A Ringworld is an artifact constructed using a systems planets and asteroids to form a ring around the sun. The inner surface is used like a planet. "Shadow Squares" provide day and night cycles and solar power.
(see 'A Hole in Space': "Bigger Than Worlds" by Larry Niven) A Dyson Sphere (or Dyson Shell,or Sphereworld) is the final costruction phase of a Ringworld. It is the ultimate engineering project of a civilization. A total sphere around a sun. The inner surface (and in some variants the outer surface; maybe both) is used like a planet. An artifact to be feared and revered for its potential.

-researching and using terraforming. Planet atmosphere/environment to match different races. Terraforming would alter a planet to a specific type for races and improve planet class. There could be slowly decreasing pennalties as the terraforming progresses. The pennalties would be due to the different atmosphere/environment. The atmosphere/environment for your race would be chosen during race creation.

-researching the ability to destroy planets and use the resulting asteroid belt to contruct a new planet again...and again...(This would require technology close to being able to construct a Ringworld.) This should be a device of a certain size to fit onto hulls.

-researching the ability to destroy a star ,and thus its planets, and use the resulting gas and debris to construct a new solar system with a Ringword again...and again....(This would require technology close to the level of constructing a Sphereworld.)This should be a device of a certain size to fit onto hulls.

-more civilizations per game; larger maps/galaxies; more races that are less humanoid; higher maximum number of planets per solar sytem: ten is a decent number.

-endless research: in later tech tree each "breakthrough" would lead to pluses to various categories such as military, diplomacy, happiness, industry, etc. Science Victory could be reaching a chosen amount above top rival(such as 3,5,or 10 times more advanced).

-multiple paths of simultaneous research possibbly using funding sliders.

-ability to construct on/at a planet more than one ship, building, etc. simultaneously; possibly using funding sliders at each planet.

-a seperate tax rate for each planet using sliders at each planet. This would be like state tax while the overall tax slider is like federal tax.

-better proportions: solar systems "tucked" into one "square/space".You could then enlarge the "System View" where there are system "squares" for exploration, travel, ...and battle.

-expansion into multiple galaxies: via "regular " drives wich would take... a long time; and later something quicker like a gate or special warp/teleport.

-the in game,each battle,option of player control over battles...space and ground(though the ground part might need some redesigning).

-orbital bombardment of planets using any/all ships and weapons:beams,missiles,cannons,etc.There would be varrying degrees of dammage to the planets infrustructure,population,and morale based on the total ships attack value.

-planetary defenses such as missle bases, beam bases, fighter bases, orbital platforms, and planetary shields.

-an Evolution / Civilization / Galactic Civilizations hybrid like the upcoming early 2007 release of Spore.Link and Link but mostly, see these video clips Link and http://spore.simvision.net/


-Wade
55,777 views 43 replies
Reply #26 Top

I would like to see for Gal Civ 3:

different space travel techs for species...some might use warp, wormholes (artificial/natural), massive ship transporter stations (like Star Trek but bigger...the species is incredibly advanced) and dimensional space transit.

a bit more development with the Thalan story...the future sounds intriguing.

localised space problems...star that intermittedly releases deadly radiation, natural supernovas, massive probes/spaceships which cause disruption, comets and black holes

a different graphical style to weapons as I don't get the feeling of power when watching the space fights. The space fights themselves don't look like 'proper' fights with odd moves made or jerkiness. A more grand style to fights would be cool...Sins has that but more moving cannons/firing and realistic looking physics when exploding/firing will enhance the fights. Different fighting styles to species will make them look more distinct and abilities to capture/destroy the losers/ships would add some choice to the outcome. Weapons could be holographic projection, teleporting bombs into the ships without shields, power draining techs, offensive tractor beams ripping the ships apart, space blobs/solid forcefields thrown around the ship to immobilise it or to protect your ship, offensive nano beams which disrupt the ship's integrity or psychic warfare (somewhat more visual than the Psi stuff we see in GalCiv2...it has to look distinct.

I think diplomacy should be more sophisicated...it would be good to actually have more moods shown by the different alien species to respond with different diplomatic phrases to mollify and wind up with. Shaking heads seems a bit crude...but creating more emotional reactions will be easily handled by the tech around when GalCiv3 comes out. Species could flush when angry or sad, be jealous, could look harrassed, could make noises that the translator cannot translate...and you could flaunt your superiority by making them cower or be magnamious.

Truly effective spacestation defense would be good...I really hated using space stations as they simply did not have the offensive power to ward off more than a couple of attacks. My rubbish laser ship could destroy them with relative ease and I didn't get the feeling that it was worth building space stations as pirates and the dread lords could destroy them within a couple of turns. The defensive and offensive power needs to be significantly higher in order to devote some resources to the stations. It was really irritating with ALL the modules being used and the station would be destroyed despite "maxing" it out with killer weapons. Cut down on the modules and make the upgrades significantly powerful weapon wise. I thought the Income stations should have some animation with adverts, and little trade ships going to and fro...that sort of thing...

For the 3rd version, a story involving a gamma ray explosion from a star in the galaxy has sterilised most of the planets in the area so the other races had to move to another galaxy in search of a home and has prompted different space travel tech advances. The dominant advanced species (call them Pelanins) in that galaxy welcomes the refugees initially but a newcomer species, for some reason, destroys the Pelanin homeworld which is the main supplier of the Pelanin space travel energy source thus fragmenting the Pelanin influence. The blame is attributed to the other GalCiv species (tarred with the same brush) and all out war ensues. The Newcomers are very alien and xenophobic so it suits them to disrupt the new Galaxy's status quo. The story could be developed from there on with Newcomer and Pelanin history being revealed to be a mutual one in the far history. No connection to Arnor or Dread Lords though. The Pelanin have a very good history with other native species being mainly Star dwellers which orbit suns and co-exist with the native civs (which exist on planets) naturally due to their nature of improving other species' racial characteristics and attainment. The fragmentation of the Pelanin civ causes other native civs to start bickering and fight with each other. Fighting to align with Pelanin and/or Newcomers would determine a lot of consequences including getting the tech to regenerate the old galaxy with life *cough genesis wave cough* or establish a new consensus eventually. A more moral driven storyline would be interesting perhaps bearing in mind Fable 2's moral influenced storyline.

Also randomly different ending videos would be good as I got bored watching the Trade Victory video and other Victory videos over and over again.

Being able to have the power to put forward new rules in the Federation as and when you want (if you are the most influential race) would be interesting as you could have the rules to your advantage but being greedy will lessen a Federation member's opinion of you substantially and your influence.

Spies should be better, mine get caught very quickly (without the counter espionage building on the planet too!!!) so it felt like a waste of time generating spies unless you had to nullify some as well!!! 

sorry about the length....just got excited!!

 

Reply #27 Top

I've been thinking that nebulas and random hazardous asteroid fields strewn throughout the galaxy would be fun, and would add that sense of terrain that many people complain about. Also, i kinda like the idea of a star randomly blowing up once every so often, and maybe a new system showing up somewhere else in the galaxy. This could cause those fun power shifts that happen can happen in r/l (ie.. a hurricane wiping out a nation in one fell swoop) but not on as grand a scale as my example.

Also, i think more ship styles would be great, along with larger galaxies and support for more major civs. Like, i don't see the realism in being able to conquer a galaxy in 10 years, nor in having the rapid weapon advances in the game.

here's an idea for a research system. you have different catagories (weapons, defense, diplomacy, etc) with sliders attached, and then you choose the specific tech (phasors, shields, majesty, etc) and this would lengthen the time for each individual tech, but your researching multiple techs at once. So in essence, you can get the same number of techs in a given time as the current method, but it would take longer (more realistically) for the tech to be researched.

I hope that makes sense. I just don't like how the other races, no matter what i do, stomp the crap outa me on research. i'm always focused on the weapons and defense while falling behind in the other catagories.  

O, and i think more political depth would be fun, like a more varied government style, like in Civ4. and, like i said in another thread, how initial hostility would be fun (skirmishes) until a non-aggression pact is made, while making attacks on starbases only permitted for war. It just doesn't make sense why a hostile enemy (though not at war with you) would take the resources to destroy a starbase that could take out their fleets.

Shouldn't the starbases have initial defenses? I mean, why would you build this huge station and have it unable to defend itself? i think its a logic thing. We should maybe also get the ability to design our stabases too, that would be fun.

Reply #28 Top

I would very much like to be able to design starbases from the ground up somehow;, although I'm not sure exactly how to consolidate that with the 'constructor' system used for upgrades withut *completely* reworking the constructor paradigm.

Maybe even have some form of 'size/space' system, where you could establish anything from a 'deep space outpost' that was nothing but a large sensor array and four bored analysts ("Spinward contact at the edge of sensor range moving at warp 2, designation Romeo2 . . . probable freighter . . .") guys with a lot of bandwidth, to a large economic starbase that enhanced everything in the sector, but takes a lot of maintenance, but doesn't have room for a broadcast station and a weapons array, since they have, like docks for 60 ships and such?

The arbitrary cutoff between influence/Military/Econ starbases annoys me - I don't mind making choices, but I also don't see why you can' scrap the WPSI "All Psilon Radio All the time" module and replace it with a trade station and a bar after you captrured the planet - {G}.

Jonnan

Reply #29 Top

I want only a few things as GalCiv2 is pretty excellent as it is:

-Ship Modifiers: I know that there are defensive/offensive bonuses now, but I want to see things like "heavy mounts" for weapons, "light armor" for fighters, and even say "repair ships".

-Revolving Planets: The planets need to orbit their sun.  This adds to strategy as your planet swings closer or further away from an enemy target.  Plus, this is more realistic amd it would give us more of an opportunity to see the city lights on the surface that I think are a very nice touch to the details of the game currently.

-Ammo/The ability to control which weapons are used in combat: Missiles and Projectiles should run out eventually.  And against a target that has strong missile defense but no shields you should be able to order the ship to save it's ammo and stick to lasers.

-Seperation of Food from population capacity: I feel like cities should give you space for 8 Billion people to live, but you should also have to have a farm to feed them.  That way you can have star wars-esk completely covered mega-metropoli worlds and farming planets to feed them.

That's all I have for now.  Feel free to rip these ideas apart. :grin:

Reply #31 Top

Alright, here goes,

I agree with the rebuilding plants after destroying them idea, but there should be a PQ penalty for each time the planet is destroyed/rebuilt.

Continuing on, it would be great if there were rebellions that actually created major civs. Some of your ships would defect. Maybe the rebellion could be controlled by your people's morale/happiness and your form of government. For example, your popularity is at 10% and you are an imperial gov't. Maybe five planets revolt and form the MAJOR race, The Terran Republic, you can choose to let them go peacefully OR declare war on the secedeing worlds. If you declare war, twenty of your ships defect to the rebellion (once again, popularity). OR, you are a Federation gov't and your pop. rating is 10%. 5 planets secede from the Federation and each planet becomes its own major race, or they form a new "coalition" or some of both. Once again, say OK or declare war. Scince you are a highly democratic gov't more planets/ships are likely to secede/defect. Also, your pop. rating goes down even more because you are attaking your own people.

The likelyness of planets/ships to secede should be determined by your type of gov't. EX.

Type of Gov't            Likelyness to Secede/Defect

Federation             50%

Democracy             35%

Republic                20%

Imperial                5%

There should be some rock bottom pop. level (like 10%) where these levels come into play. Ex.-You are a democracy and your pop. level is 90%. Your people are very unlikely to secede (1 in 100000000000). As your popularity level drops the possibility of rebellion rises. And when you reach the rockbottom level (Like 10%) your people are at the highest possible rebellion possibility (35% for Star Democracy).

I am NOT talking about the defect to other civs event.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting TMS2224, reply 31
Alright, here goes,

I agree with the rebuilding plants after destroying them idea, but there should be a PQ penalty for each time the planet is destroyed/rebuilt.

Continuing on, it would be great if there were rebellions that actually created major civs. Some of your ships would defect. Maybe the rebellion could be controlled by your people's morale/happiness and your form of government. For example, your popularity is at 10% and you are an imperial gov't. Maybe five planets revolt and form the MAJOR race, The Terran Republic, you can choose to let them go peacefully OR declare war on the secedeing worlds. If you declare war, twenty of your ships defect to the rebellion (once again, popularity). OR, you are a Federation gov't and your pop. rating is 10%. 5 planets secede from the Federation and each planet becomes its own major race, or they form a new "coalition" or some of both. Once again, say OK or declare war. Scince you are a highly democratic gov't more planets/ships are likely to secede/defect. Also, your pop. rating goes down even more because you are attaking your own people.

The likelyness of planets/ships to secede should be determined by your type of gov't. EX.

Type of Gov't            Likelyness to Secede/Defect

Federation             50%

Democracy             35%

Republic                20%

Imperial                5%

There should be some rock bottom pop. level (like 10%) where these levels come into play. Ex.-You are a democracy and your pop. level is 90%. Your people are very unlikely to secede (1 in 100000000000). As your popularity level drops the possibility of rebellion rises. And when you reach the rockbottom level (Like 10%) your people are at the highest possible rebellion possibility (35% for Star Democracy).

I am NOT talking about the defect to other civs event.
End of TMS2224's quote

Thing is, there's already a possibility for rebellions somewhat like this in the game (see https://forums.galciv2.com/395660). They are incredibly rare, and require such low approval that anyone who tries even slightly will be able to avoid them. They also, despite what the text says, don't seem to be affected by more advanced forms of government.

That said, I like your ideas on how a rebellion should work. In the current system they're unheard of unless you're trying to have one or (in highly rare cases) with an AI that taxes its people too much, like the Drengin or Krynn. Ships don't defect, though, so the "rebels" are virtually powerless and never do anything, though this might just be because the morale level needed to trigger a rebellion will cause people to die off. The suggestions you have would be a much better way to work in the idea, and I especially like the part where you're given the choice to let them peacefully secede or declare war. It also makes long-term morale more important.

Also, on a different note, the idea about having the rebels become a new major race is in line with one of my own ideas for GalCiv 3 - having new major races appear as a random event. I like the idea behind the "Vegans" and so forth, of a new race moving into known space, but they're so pathetic that they always are conquered without doing anything. The event could just as well be "Planet X has suddenly become habitable". Having a new major race move in, on the other hand, would be pretty cool. Maybe they could get free extreme colonization technologies to make them more competitive?

Finally, in regards to the original poster, I don't think any of the races in the game have the technology for feats of megascale engineering like Dyson spheres (except maybe the Thalans, and they don't have the industrial base in the current time period). But I've always thought finding abandoned Precursor Dyson spheres or something similiar would be a neat idea, and one of the ways to add more variety to space in the game (but that's another thread).

Reply #33 Top

I think the most critical need is a better space battle viewer.  The current viewer gives little sense of the power of the ships and weapons.  I spent all that time designing/building the ships, I want to watch them perform.  The battle graphics should instantly and clearly show damage done and damage defended against.  For example an orange phasor partly deflected by shields could make a semispherical blue glow shell (brightness dependent on damage deflected) and the phasor damage to the target could make an orange flash and sparks coming off the target (brightness and numbers of sparks dependent on damage taken).

Tomalexander also mentioned this lack: "a different graphical style to weapons as I don't get the feeling of power when watching the space fights. The space fights themselves don't look like 'proper' fights with odd moves made or jerkiness. A more grand style to fights would be cool..."

The space battles could be organized by echelons.  The ships in the back wave might have minuses to attack and pluses to defense (until the front wave is wiped out).  The ships in the front might be specialized for frontline use.  This is a possible use for a mix of fighters and capital ships.  Also this would justify keeping the ships static in formation instead of drifting randomly around.

The next most critical need is for a better AI.  At least an AI with smarter short range tactics like more massing into fleets, attacking weak but threatening units, running from overpowering units.

Reply #34 Top

The different space travel modes sound great, but it boils down to the question of how to balance it?
I'd say keep the current mode in the beginning/midgame, then offer some alternatives:
* reintroduce star gates: Stargate #1 has to be built in pairs. Stargate #2 can link up to ANY your civ's other stargate #2's, not a #1 though. Another tech advance allows for upgrading existing #1 gates to #2.
* teleporting entire ships: no, please don't introduce that. It's too imbalanced.

Natural supernovae: big nono. Supernovae are rare. Don't introduce them.
Gamma Ray Burst: hell no. These bursts hit a very narrow corridor. Sterilizing more than one star and its planets would be a very "lucky"(LOL) hit.
The story about exodus and meeting the Pelarin is excellent, tho. What about a new secret weapon to cause this, say the AI of a cloaked terrorstar prototype goes whack, and decides to sterilize the galaxy. All sentient races ally and manage to escape through an intergalactic wormhole, minutes before the TS kills the local sun, and the wormhole in the process.
Black holes: these aren't too common either. Might be common enough to include them in a campaign mission (the "all hell breaks loose at a remote research station" stereotype).
Hazardous stars: could cause a bad harvest from time to time.

Research: I'd like some research bonuses which only affect a branch, say, Drengin: weapons tech, Humans: diplo/economy, etc. That would make the races truly unique.

Food: USSCallisto's suggestion to pool food is a good idea IMO. Otherwise a food surplus could alleviate morale penalties or add to trade.

Starbases: yes, there shouldn't be different types. There should be a module limit (related to Logistics???).

And yes, give us a frickin cyborg race with a red laser eye. Or better yet, a frickin three-eyed cyborg race with two red laser eyes. Twin lasers rule! (Just kidding.)
~~~~

Reply #35 Top

Here's my take on some things that should be features of GalCiv III or a similar style of game ...  I repeat, these are suggestions for GalCiv III or some other entirely new game, and not any kind of expansion. There are many details behind each suggestion, as well as reasons so while I appreciate opinions, please don't dismiss these based on what's here.  If you think something might not be workable, I'd prefer you ask for details before simply dismissing something out-of-hand.  Anyone know of a better thread that the devs might actually look at?

- Switch from grid map to hex map both in the galactic and colony screens.  Hex maps look better, and have better movement characteristics.

- Drastically reduced ship ranges and caps on support modules.  There is VAST strategic and gameplay potential in the concept of being dependent on well-placed starbases to both expand and to engage in war.  There's a lot of complaint that anything other than resource bases aren't worth the cost to create or defend.  By forcing the use of starbases to extend range into the extreme, players become required to assess potential expansion and invasion as corridors, as well as possibly maintaining corridors of trade or defense.  To that end, Trade modules would gain an ability that allows them to use the starbases and colonies of races you're not at war with to extend their range accordingly, and survey modules would provide ship range bonuses with the restriction that the vessel cannot carry weapons.

- Switch from current "planetary system over multiple tiles" to "stellar cluster in a single tile" format.  I know someone else already shot down an idea of putting even the planets in with the star, but my suggestion is significantly different and you'll just have to trust me or ask for details.  It also ties into the reduced ship ranges.  It's all about making the game universe FEEL appropriately vast.

- Make ZoC and fleet-based speed boosts more dominant.  In a further bid to make strategy a much more variable and intensive proposition, single-ship engines should be the exception, not the rule.  The leap from gate-dependent travel to gate-independent travel is massive, and should be made more significant.  Perhaps have the 5 degrees of tech as follows, relativistic, ZoC (gates), fleet-based speed boosts, singular engines, and finally a "teleporter" (yes I know, you hate them) that is not automatic but that you have to pay to use each time ... so jumping a fleet of ships across known space is going to be hardcore expensive...the kind of thing you use only for emergencies, but a massive potential advantage either way when used correctly, to say nothing of the strategy of eliminating an enemy's ability to afford that advantage when you're invading them.

- Switch to "Infrastructure Networks" that provide minor bonuses across all basic planetary production but with a specialization in the appropriate type, in place of specific singular buildings (still only takes up one tile).  OR Infrastructure Networks of each production type that have prerequisites of networks of the other types.  For example; an Industrial Sector requiring a specific level of morale structure and/or something else and so on.  OR a more subtle mix of the two.

- Institute a mechanism to reduce population when the people aren't sufficiently provided for, meaning starvation.  It's simply stupid to "cap a population" and have no further need to worry about it other than avoiding defections.  Unless morale of a capped population already also affects income somehow?  Regardless, populations fluctuate greatly, and either a random variable should be introduced to planetary income to reflect this, or the growth rate should occasionally drop when the population's been too high too long.

- More tangible differences between alignments, or a better social policy system in general.  This one is just huge, composed of many different ideas, so you're just going to have to ask.

- More refined tech trees:  The general idea here is that each type of tech should be a degree, and each degree should be 1 to 5 levels.  For example; some races will get phasors, some won't ... some of those who get phasors will get all 5 levels of it, some won't.  Apply it to every technology, following the 1 to 5 rule for both degrees and levels.  The determining factor will be how many degrees a race gets, for example; 1 degree gets all 5 levels of it, 2 degrees get 4 levels each, and so on to 5 degrees getting only one level each.  The price of innovation is refinement, and the price of refinement is innovation.  The only exceptions to this distribution pattern will be governmentally, politically, ethically, and racially specific technologies ...  the things that nobody who isn't of the appropriate group can ever have.  And finally, the technological victory path should be such that it's a near reverse of the beginning of the entire tree on the opposite end, and thus making a technology victory a much more involved endeavor rather than just a sprint for the end.

- More consistent ship component cost/size/benefit ratios.  This ties in with the refinement of tech trees, in that researching a new degree of ship component increases the benefit, while a new level of a degree reduces its cost.  Nothing reduces their space in this instance.

There are many more, but I have things to do, I'll cover more later.

Reply #36 Top

Hex maps: yes, by all means, use hex maps. They ARE better. Don't know why every developer seems to abandon hex maps. I keep moving diagonally all the time. Just can't resist.

Reduces ship ranges: definitely. A "tug" or "carrier" would come in handy then.
Tug: can tow a similar size vessel.
Carrier: can carry multiple smaller ships.

Reduced speed: diminishing returns would be great here. Perhaps using a formula like

sqrt(speed1^2 + ... + speedN^2)

Example: speed1(base speed) = 3, speed2 = 4. Speed now: 3 + 4 = 7.
Speed then: sqrt(3^2 + 4^2) = 5.
New drive generations would be much more important then.

Teleporting at a price: sounds good. BUT restrict the destination to currently reconned squares/hexes, so a "pop out of nowhere" attack is less imba.
I'm fine with it then.

Reply #37 Top

I honestly would really like to see a more fleshed-out government system...make different governments good for different aspects of the game. And perhaps give different starting governments to different nations. The Terran Alliance starting out as a monarchy? The Drengin Empire striving to decentralize itself and become a Star Federation...or implement democracy at all?

Maybe some theoretical governments too to fit with the alien theme...collectives, hive-minds, technocracies...a theocracy (not included in the theoretical category) would be cool.

Reply #38 Top

Quoting Farae, reply 37
... Maybe some theoretical governments too to fit with the alien theme...collectives, hive-minds, technocracies...a theocracy (not included in the theoretical category) would be cool.
End of Farae's quote

Yup. The Almighty BC is perhaps the biggest immersion-breaker for me. I like to play Thalans and occasionally Yor. Neither of those cultures should need currency, and they should have radically different 'social' techs, not just gaps where the more-like-Terrans cultures have their banking and PR stuff.

Reply #39 Top

After reading everything (and god, did it take a while) I have to say I love all these ideas! :D So thought i,d throw one of my own into the ring: some modifications to the custom races and ship building facilitys. I dont know about anyone else, but if i,m playin a custom made race, made by me, I do NOT want to see ships from, say, the Terran Alliance popping up as my el defacto ships at the start. For example, I made a cyborg race known as the Krylon, and their ships were designed by me to be, well, borg-ish looking. But because you dont get an option to put them into your custom race, (it says choose ship style and race, all the "main races") i chose the Terran Alliance. So once you start up as your custom race, you have Krylon AND Terran Alliance ships.

Dunno about anyone else, but I dont want frikin Alliance ships in amongst my all power cyborg stuff, thank you. lol. Why not for Civ III, have the option to create your race, then when it comes to custom ship building, be able to start from scratch and lob the designs into your own race? And if nothing else it gives people more motivation to use ship builder if they are creating ship templates for a whole new race from scratch. Cant have a custom race without ships.

As for the custom races themselves, I think you should be able to pick and choose some unique techs to put in, and not use the "major or minor" race techs provided. Once again, I come back to a custom cyborg, or hell, completely robitic race: they aint gonna need farms! lol. Hell, tbh, they aint gonna need banks, aint gonna need moral structures, fertility clinics, food distrobution centres, entertainment systems, any of that stuff. Say you create a wholy robotic race, u,d want a cyber factory (builds units, increases population cap), power distrobution nodes (their version of food), geothermal energy siphons that harness power and transform it into resources (like a bank for the organic races), that kinda stuff.

Basically, I know that was a bit of a rant, but is it too much to ask that the custom race you create (society AND ships) are something that YOU create, and not have to use tech, ships and structures from the races that are already IN the game?

Food for thought. Or nodes. Either or. lol. B)

Reply #40 Top

Here's my take on it all...

-- Incorporate the concepts of Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3 civilizations.  Attaining Type 1 allows you full access to the advantages of your starting star system, and attaining Type 2 puts you out in the galaxy, while attaining Type 3 would be the victory condition.

 

- Type 1 will be attained through research into "united world government" of some kind.  That could be through diplomatic congress like the U.N., or it could be that Hitler won WWII, or it could be that various conditions simply "bred-out" cultural and racial distinctions over time leaving only their thoroughly mixed descendants.  Additionally, certain other technologies will have to be researched and implemented such as some form of solar power converter and super-efficient waste recycling.

 

-- Type 2 will be attained with the development of the first interstellar drive (sub-light only at first, but soon becoming FTL afterward), and will also require the research and construction of "charging stations".  These deep-space stations will have vast solar farms tethered to them, for fueling and charging ships before departure.  Eventually, it may be possible to research power plants that eliminate the need for these stations.  Achieving FTL travel should take just long enough that all systems within a few spaces are close to fully-developed by then.

 

-- Out of all of that, no more individual worlds...just star systems.  Each system has a number of internal "spaces" for various improvements equal to the amount of space available on all worlds and moons in it.  The various degrees of terraforming, space colonies, artificial planets, ringworlds and Dyson's spheres would increase the number of spaces available in a system.  At the very beginning of the game, a player (or AI) would have only a number of spaces available equal to his homeworld.  Upon attaining Type 1 status through research (and probably constructing certain facilities), more spaces would become available, later increased as mentioned before.

 

-- No more colonization.  Building colony ships and trucking them off into the unknown is clunky, unrealistic, and not particularly fun in my opinion.  So we're going to make more use of culture borders by declaring that systems falling within your borders are slowly colonized at a certain rate until they become self-sustaining, fully-fledged colonies.  This might be represented by a temporary trade-route-like line between that system and the nearest one you control, so that it can be disrupted or eliminated by pirates or enemies.  One colony ship is not enough to get a world going in a few centuries, let alone a few years.  It would take dozens, hundreds of ships carting pioneers from the developed worlds of your empire off to stake a claim one of many new worlds to achieve that.  So that's exactly how we'll do it.

 

-- Ships constructed as battle-groups.  While they'll still be designed individually, they'll be set-up and built as battle-groups (Yes, battle-groups of 1 will still be allowed).  Each battle-group would have a logistics cost when putting multiple groups together to form fleets.  When building a battle-group, a formation would be selected that provides a particular kind of bonus to some capability of the ships in the group during combat.  Likewise, when forming a fleet, another formation will be selected that provides a bonus of its own.  Each battle-group will benefit from its own formation bonus as well as that of the fleet's formation bonus.  Battle-groups can be repurposed (read: upgraded) to include, remove, or retrofit ships; as well as changing the group's formation.  Fleets too can be reorganized to a new formation, have new groups added to or removed from it, or be disbanded entirely of course.  While it sounds complicated, building and managing large numbers of combat spacecraft will become much easier this way.

 

-- Planetary defenses that specifically use battle-groups.  Instead of a planet trying to organize its own fleet on the fly out of whatever ships are handy, a battle-group or fleet can simply be ordered to defend a planet or area of space.  Anything that attacks the planet is attacked by the group or fleet, and the ships of any race you're at war with that approach within one turn's worth of movement of the group's or fleet's location will be attacked as well.  I say "one turn's worth of movement" because there's no real point in having them chase down everything hostile that gets within sensor range.  More often than not, they won't catch it, and just as often it'll be a total fluke that they passed in sensor range anyway.

 

-- Weapons damage types.  There's really no point in the distinction between missiles and cannon rounds in the game, and this is true for one major reason...  Right now, advances in the rounds being used in artillery of all types are becoming nearly indistinguishable from the warheads of missiles.  The only practical differences currently are that one is self-propelled and also their respective launching systems.  Even guidance is no longer solely the domain of missile technology.  Point-defense technology is likewise developing at such a rate and in such a way as to reasonably target and destroy incoming artillery fire.  So it really boils down to directed energy weapons, and ballistics.  Consider for a moment that soon railguns will be readily capable of boosting missiles and one realizes quickly that propulsion will be the only distinction left, and it'll be minor at best.

That's all a very long-winded way of saying: the kind of weapon has little to do with the kind of damage it does.  So we'll have new damage types; Thermal, Kinetic, and Electromagnetic.  Furthermore, they'll be organized in a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" format of damage type to defense type.  Thermal beats kinetic, kinetic beats electromagnetic, electromagnetic beats thermal.  Ultimately, ballistic weapons should be poor in electromagnetic damage, while directed energy weapons should be poor in kinetic damage.  Defenses "beaten" by a damage type provide zero protection against it, while defenses of the identical type nullify damage completely and the remaining defense type reduces damage taken by an amount dependent on the quality and quantity of the defense.  Because of this, only two defense types will be allowed on any one ship.  This makes thermal weapons and defenses a standard on most ships, with a subsequent specialization in either kinetic or electromagnetic; it also means that it is not possible to design a completely invincible ship and will promote thoughtful and creative battle-group and fleet composition strategies.  There can never be an "I win" fleet.

 

-- Hex maps, 'nuff said.

 

-- Different economic models.  There's trade/finance, tourism, production, and theft.  Obviously everything in the game will cost money, except that all money will be based on energy, the one truly universal thing.  As such, all races will have power plants that generate income dependent on which economic model they use.

Trade and finance are all about moving money or moving goods, it's about making your empire the "middle-man" in every deal in the galaxy.  Races that base their economies on this method primarily make money by buying and selling other people's stuff.  This is the most basic kind of economy and one we're all familiar with.  Power plants in this model generate a moderate amount of income.  Because you can't deal with people who don't like you, diplomacy is extremely important here.  After establishing trade between any two systems, The financial institutions of your worlds will provide income based on a portion of your diplomacy.  If both systems on the route are yours, this benefit is cut in half (or less).  Being a financier and trader is best in a diverse market, after all.  This will be the most common economic model among races.

Tourism is a little more unique.  The power plants of tourist cultures generate poor income.  Tourist cultures "spend" cultural influence to "create" money.  Basically they're converters.  The more tourist attractions they build, the more cultural influence they convert.  This conversion is total, and any "spent" influence cannot be contributed toward expanding borders.  This is probably the simplest model of all, but is also the most fragile, as all non-tourist buildings will carry "blemish" penalties for their undesirability in addition to upkeep.  This will be relatively uncommon.

Production is exactly that.  You build power plants, and they literally make "money" in the form of energy that is then spent by factories and such to "buy" ships and the like.  This is about as simple as tourism, but it's the most stable and robust of all systems.  This is the equivalent of a "moneyless society" like the Federation in Star Trek.  You'll never get rich, but you'll never be poor.  This is the rarest economic model of all because it's idiot-proof.

Theft is the domain of conquering races.  Power plants of conquering races generate poor income.  As their borders expand, they don't colonize star systems, they raid them.  As systems come into their borders, various refugees and such flee their worlds and try to make new lives.  These worlds provide no benefit to a race using this model until a battle-group or fleet equipped with raiding modules is set to "defend" the system.  At that point, a regular income is taken from those worlds as long as the ships remain.  This is only barely enough to keep the empire running though.  For quick infusions of a lot of money, worlds must be conquered.  Conquering a world yields a ridiculous amount of money, once.  After that, the world produces only what meager income can be generated by the few poor economic improvements available (usually things like Raiding Coordination Centers), and it can no longer be raided.  So conquest-based economics, like in the Roman empire and among the Vikings, can be the most lucrative of all, but has a shelf-life.  Good for the first half of the game or so, but then gets progressively harder to keep going as it takes more and more raiding fleets and more and more conquests to keep everything running.  This is a relatively rare model for highly aggressive AIs and players.

 

-- Terraforming and world construction.  All of the following technologies have additional series of "upgrades" that reduce upkeep or construction costs.

There should be three grades of terraforming; the first makes an uninhabitable world habitable, the second makes it homeworld-like, and the third makes it ideally suited for your race.  Each grade is comprised of 3 technologies making for a total of 9 upgrades.  Each improves the amount of usable area in the system by 1.

Space colonies are massive structures housing thousands or even millions of citizens.  While any number of them may be built, the upkeep of each multiplies with the number currently built.  New technologies allow for bigger and better colonies, improving in 5 grades that each increase the space they provide by 1.

Artificial planets are extreme undertakings attempted only by highly advanced races.  Like space colonies, any number of them can be built, and their upkeep is multiplicative, but their base upkeeps are exorbitantly enormous.  Additionally, there is only one grade of artificial planet, you either build a planet, or you don't.  Consequently, the number of spaces they add is quite high.

Ringworlds Are the first step toward pursuing a status as a Type 3 civilization.  Only through complete mastery of stars and their planets can one hope to expand across and utilize an entire galaxy's worth of resources.  These system-spanning structures immediately double the available area of a system.  Their upkeep is extreme and only one may be built per star.

Dyson's spheres are truly epic devices.  Usually constructed at a distance near a star's heliosphere because these structures trap all of a star's output within.  Few civilizations can afford more than one of these, and they take a very long time to build.  Like ringworlds, only one can be built in a system, but it immediately triples the current number of spaces in the system.  Their upkeep can often exceed the output of most star systems.  These are the keys to the gateway of becoming a Type 3 civilization.

 

-- FTL travel.  There are three techniques for traveling faster than light.  All tend to add up to roughly the same galactic speed, but each has particular strategic advantages and disadvantages.

Shipboard drives are FTL engines built right into the ship.  They are the rarest method of propulsion because they're the most complex and energy intensive.  They have the advantage of being able to go anywhere, anytime, though they tend to be on the slow side and rather expensive both in volume and credits.

Jumpship drives are very similar to other shipboard drives in that it is built directly into a ship.  Unlike those drives though, jumpship drives only go on one ship in a battle-group.  They're enormous, and expensive, but jumpships can take many vessels at once along with them, leaving those ships free to pack on more weapons, defenses, and other systems.  This tends to be a little faster than individual ship drives, but not greatly so.

Finally there are gate stations.  These are massive space facilities that either generate a field that allows a ship to jump, or has an array of gates through which ships can pass to other stations.  Either way, ships are restricted to sub-light speeds if they begin their move outside a gated system or end their move out of range of a gate.  Starbases may also have gate systems installed to extend the reach of vessels.  This is the fastest and cheapest method of FTL travel as each system requires only one gate station, and ships require no special modules to use them; and also because of their extreme strategic disadvantage compared to the other two methods.  The loss of a single system or starbase can cripple an empire.

Reply #41 Top

 

here is a couple things,

              Being able to start out as a new budding race, conquering their own planet, dreaming of the stars they will in time control all of our galaxy with that in mind the ability to control individual planets and conquer each individual planet could be fun to explore, but with some kind of automation for each planet 'such as; research, domestic, military, and aggression based on alignment and auto populate /explore for individual planets or ships (really cool for huge or immense size maps that i like to play and truly unleash hell on my opponents).

               something cool to think about is black holes, because they can't be detected by normal means... so it can sneak up on you while traveling around if your ships are not equipped with decent censors to detect and avoid or the proper buoys.

                Some kind of diversity with the technology for each race and technology levels that are achieved and allow for mixing some of the technologies to come out with super technologies that are only available if certain combinations of technologies are researched

              I was recently playing and thought that it would be really cool to have 'auto planet set up' for military, domestic, and research that could be set, so you only need to look in on the planet from time to time, and the planet places every thing on the planet for instance playing a large or immense size universe you would only need set auto explore and auto expand and auto research, auto build and leave it alone.  Perhapse even some ship domenancy tactics like 'Air superiority' or 'ground domination' and maybe even "I do no wrong, ... unless you do" setting for military units or groups of units.

              talking with my brother about this, he has a good point, when reaching the final research on the research tree 'ascension' it would be cool to be rewarded with some kind of awesome tech or buildings or even ships or point to point tracvel for ships and cargo removing cost rubbed off in taxing space stations and chances of piracy, while giving some kind of mobility to space stations considering we have the knowledge of the universe by then.

what do you all think?

 Most of my family and a good portion of my friends think that this game would be cool with coop or multiplayer online or two player local would be cool and ... sake make another. Please...

arcangle003