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AI Balance> Unfair AI-to-AI Tech Trade

AI Balance> Unfair AI-to-AI Tech Trade

How does a one-planet AI empire keep up on the same advanced techs as big AI empires?

When you trade technology with an AI civilization, they generally require (in my estimation) 2 to 8x the value of the technology that you're asking for. I'm quite positive however that the AI civilizations through some quirk are trading technologies in an overall equitable and constant manner; as a result, their research is pooled, making it almost impossible for the player to compete on Normal difficulty. I say this based on the game I'm running right now on Normal difficulty, playing as the Humans.

The Arceans have only ONE planet, and the Drath have the weakest economy and have been so for a long time. By constrast, the Iconians have the strongest economy and this has been the case for a long time. So why is it that the Arceans and the Drath both possess the most advanced technology the Iconians have to offer? Why is it that all AI races, including the two who have the least to offer, possess Advanced Logistics, while no AI race will trade that to me for four state-of-the-art techs? They also share an array of other technologies, every single one of them, which logically they shouldn't have the bargaining chips to acquire. To add insult to injury, the Yor who are at war with the Iconians and hate everybody else ALSO have all these same technologies, so it's obvious they're a part of the universal tech exchange too.

I'd certainly expect all the AI to contrivedly gang up on the player on very high difficulties, but I thought until we went above Intelligent difficulty there wouldn't be unrealistic advantages like that? They do seem fairly intelligent so far, so I don't see any need, so perhaps this is just a bug like maybe they take turns 'seeking' a technology, offering 4x as much tech in exchange, and then their trading partner turns around wanting a particular tech and offers 4x as much technology right back at them; the result is unintended research sharing, meaning the player must research vs the combined efforts of all AI races. It really is having quite a massive effect on my gameplay. I've been watching troop transports going all over the place for the last eight hours of gameplay because everybody's got Planetary Invasion, and I'm getting outmatched by large fleets of inferior ships because everybody has Advanced Logistics. I've been keeping parity or better in terms of research, but getting both these techs will take me 32 turns even now -- and I've got dozens of other techs I'm falling behind on because of the unfair AI tech trade.
23,861 views 31 replies
Reply #26 Top

The AI's are just as likely to offer you a good or bad deal for you to take or reject.

Last night I had a game where the AI offered me advanced logistics for trade which I think was a great deal for me.

Other times they'll offer you armor theory for Plasma weapons. 

They make those kinds of offers to each other as well.

It's literally a rand()%ulNumberofPlayers and then pops it up.

 

Reply #27 Top
Really? So far you could count on one hand the number of offers I've recieved in my game that's in 2228. It may be bugged, or I've just been very unlucky.

Is the AIs trading with the Pirates a bug? I thought everyone was always at war with the Pirates. Is there some way for the player to trade with the Pirates in GC2?
Reply #28 Top
Look at it this way:
If in a 5 way game each of the 5 civs develop a new unique tech, and in each trade you're charged 4x what the other civ's tech is worth, you're still winning out. Just be sure to trade the same tech to everyone on the same turn; as long as nobody else is trading it away before you you can trade the same tech multiple times.
Reply #29 Top
Sure, techwhoreing works. That's how a lot of top GC1 players played the game and I do it to a lesser extent (I just make sure and keep a few choice tech to myself until I see an AI researching it and then I sell it to everyone the week before they complete the research... including to the civ researching it MUHAHAHAH). It's just kind of annoying, IMO, when everyone is at the same tech level because the AIs sell everything they get.
Reply #30 Top

The AI's are just as likely to offer you a good or bad deal for you to take or reject.
Last night I had a game where the AI offered me advanced logistics for trade which I think was a great deal for me.
Other times they'll offer you armor theory for Plasma weapons.
They make those kinds of offers to each other as well.
It's literally a rand()%ulNumberofPlayers and then pops it up.


There is the problem right there. By making the trade offers randomly good or bad you fail to recognize that trading amongst computer players is a zero sum game. All unbalanced trades are bad for balance and tend to lead to the tech sharing problem because it maximizes the chance that good techs will get traded to races that are behind in research. An AI race should always offer or accept trades that are only to its advantage. The AI can trade with itself far more efficiently than the player usually does (other posters have noticed that the player can aggressively trade techs and outperform the AI). Neither solution is realistic or fun. Either the AI behavior effectively conspires against the player, or the player exploits it to play broker with all the AI's none the wiser.

Both types of game undermine what was supposed to be a fundamental aspect of GC2, according to the devs: specialization. Either the AI's get all good techs all the time, or the player totally outperforms all the AI's.

I would like to see games where the AI's and the player pursue different strategies and are more or less forced to stick to them. As it is every human and AI player is rewarded for trading techs so much that specialization is effectively meaningless.
Reply #31 Top
My current game is only my second and is on normal. The AI all seemed to develop a primary focus on Beam technology, later becoming semi-proficient at mass drivers. All of them. This made it easy for me to take advantage of, but it did seem pretty strange.

'twas interesting having almost all the majors asking me to trade techs after I finished Xeno Farming II though.