So, was Space Empires IV any good?

I've never played it, but I was looking through some of their data files. It looked like you could do some pretty impressive stuff. I've heard many of you guys mentioning that you have played it back in the day. Is it a good game? And do you think it's still worth a go nowadays?
1,311 views 15 replies
Reply #1 Top
The AI is not terrific, but I think it is still a good game and from time to time I still play it. You can DL the demo to see for your self at http://www.malfador.com . It seems they will release a new game in the summer, details on the same site. Brad (Frogboy) referred to them a while ago, I guess he also likes SE IV ;)
Reply #2 Top
The weak A.I. ruined the game for me. I liked the ability to design my own ships and tactical combat very much. I wish Gal Civ had them.

~SDC~
Reply #3 Top
For me it felt more like a bunch of spread sheet rather than a game.
It is deep, immensive but well..it depends on your preference. If you like micromanagement and ship design a lot, you will like it
But even in small galaxy it takes much longer to finish (not necessarily a good thing)

Galciv is simpler and not as deep as SE IV. But for me, at least galciv felt like a game and much more interesting.

Especially, as somebody posted at gamefaqs forum, galciv is a game not about how to fight but about when to fight which is very interesting to me....

Reply #4 Top
I've promoted GalCiv on the Space Empires IV forum [and elsewhere], so I guess turnabout is fair play.

Personally, I love SEIV. It and GalCiv are the only two games I'm playing regularly. Despite both of them being Space 4x games, the approaches are quite different. SEIV has much more detail in ship design, combat, weapons and countermeasures, etc. The diplomatic stuff is less developed than GalCiv, but GalCiv leads the way in that department. A big bonus for SEIV is its multiplayer capability, and I don't think it's hard to find a game to join--plus, you can always get your brother hooked, like I did, so you can pbem with him. :-) Altho the stock AI is relatively weak, a number of mods have addressed this. The TDM modpack does an especially good job of improving AI performance and providing a challenging solo game, and it does this without changing any of the mechanics of the game, but, instead, simply tweaking the AI files to make them more efficient.

The ability to modify the game is one of its strong points. All the data files used in the game are simple .txt files, the graphics are .bmps, the sounds are .wavs, so changing just about anything is easy. A large number of user-made ship sets are available online, and many of them are really impressive. In connection with this, some mods focus on popular SF movies/tv shows/novels, and many shipsets exist for Star Trek, Star Wars, Babylon 5, the Honor Harrington books, etc.

GalCiv and SEIV are different enough that I think it's worth having both of them so that you've got a choice of what to play depending on your mood. I'm glad I've got them both.
Reply #5 Top
i downloaded SE4 demo a while back, but i didnt get into it for some reason, even though i loved SE3. the only thing i didnt like about SE3 was the fact that it was nearly impossible to keep good relations with the AI. i dont know why or what but the SE4 demo just didnt appeal to me, even though i spent many "all nighters" with SE3.
Reply #6 Top
I bought SEIV when it came out. They updated it for a while, then decided to make the "gold" version. This was basicly so everyone has to buy the game again to get anymore updates or to get any mods to work anymore. When I wrote them about this and asked for a discount because I already bought the original they said "oh we ran a discount for about month, guess you missed it."

Needless to say I won't buy a Malfador game ever again. It wasn't even that good anyway, hardly worth all the trouble.

~SDC~
Reply #7 Top
Just sharing with thoughts already expressed..I enjoy both games as they play very differently...if you have the financial means to do so, pick up SEIV..I especially like the Babylon5 mod that SEIV has and am looking foward to the Star Trek mod that is being developed..there is plenty of room in the gaming world for 2 quality 4X games and these two rank at the top...I will admit though to ocassionally loading up Star Trek-Birth of the Federation..I may be in the minority but I still enjoy that game too....
Reply #8 Top
I think Space Empires IV Gold is definitely a good game, especially for multi-player (play by email supported by the play-by-web website), and for the moddability and the many interesting mods players have made for it.

It is more about tactical and technical details, allowing players to design their own ships, track the experience of every ship, and so on.

The AI in the Gold edition is good enough until you get good at it, and then there are mods which make the AI quite challenging to beat.

Try the demo and check out the forum. :)

PvK
Reply #9 Top
I'd have to agree with that; SE4 is about underlying detail. The building blocks are down to the level of separate components for bridge, lifesupport and crew quarters, and everything else except the kitchen sink :).

By building on the fine details, everything above becomes similarily detailed.

In combat, then, if you get hit, your ship might lose some of its engines and, naturally, have a reduced speed until the damage can be repaired...
Now, should your battlefleet slow down so the damaged ship can keep up, or press on with the assault? Will the crippled ship be able to escape to a friendly base before being overtaken by enemies? Should it try to hide out in the nearby storm until reinforcements arrive?

Yet still, the detail is not required. You can turn on the design minister, use strategic combat mode, and just leave the crippled ships to their doom while you build new ships to replace them.

If you are more of a big picture person, you can merrily move your stacks of fleets around like chess pieces, and let the details take care of themselves.
You will likely be drawn deeper and deeper into the details, though, as you think "Hmmm I wish I had X..." and then go and make it...

-----

Is summary, it is very much about detail. You'll get into how things work... It's not just a ship; its a personally crafted work of art.

This can be seen in the turn times: from 5 minutes to check the big picture and get all the nessesary orders done in order to win ... all the way up to an hour or two for fiddling with build queues, local defenses, and giving all your ships unique names for the micromanagement inclined.

-----

Did I ever tell you about the story of the Avenger?

The fanciest and most unfathomably expensive dreadnought ever built, she was built to last - piles of shields and armor and bristling with point defense cannons. She also took the full output of a small mining world just to cover day to day maintenance. The same funds could have supported a twenty or thirty smaller craft, but the Avenger was the flagship of the empire, and she had priority.

Aliens had finally breached the empire's defense minefields after decades of relative invulnerability, and one of their dreadnaughts had just exited the warppoint into the empire's Home System.

The Avenger was the only ship assigned to that particular warppoint sector at the time, since her sisterships and Battlecruiser sized escorts were undergoing repairs from a previous incident.
Without a second thought, she was sent to finish off the mine-damaged DN before it could cause any trouble.

Unfortunately, there was a problem... directly beside that one enemy dreadnought were ten others, all still cloaked and lying in wait. If not for the light-to moderate damage delivered by the last of the mines, the battle would have been lost immediately.

The Avenger, now locked in battle, made some impressive manouevers. She attempted to stay at extreme range where her powerful ECM and stealth abilities would be most effective. She struck out at the fastest ships in hopes of slowing them down to reduce the volume of return fire...

After almost being trapped, the Avenger broke through; shields depleted, and some armor damage degrading her stealth, but only a few enemy ships still keeping pace.

Just as the tide of battle looked to be turning, the unthinkable happened: The Avenger ran completely dry on supplies...
Shields collapsed completely, weapons fell silent, and the engines powered down, leaving her to drift slowly while the enemy fleet poured onwards.
The avenger absorbed an incredible beating, with beam after beam cutting through her heavy armor plating.

At the last moment, reinforcements from a neighbouring sector were able to arrive. The pair of Battlecruisers swept past the Avenger, taking the pressure off. Combining some tag-team dogfighting with fully charged weapons, they swept through the field to finish off the rest of the crippled ships to save the day.

The avenger had to spend over 10 turns in the spaceyard undergoing repairs, but she returned to serve the empire for next decade before finally being retired.

She currently resides in orbit of the homeworld, and historical tours are held weekly. ;)
Reply #10 Top
SEIV has more complexity in certain areas - the tech tree allowing to reasearch single ship components rather than improved ships as a whole for example. Means you can design your own ships. And you must, so it is a bit more micromanagement.



But the user interface is great, and micromanagement didn't mean to the designer "you have to repeat a gazillion mouseclicks every turn for things that most obviously cannot be done otherwise". Everything can be done with very few clicks in a good intuitive interface. Researched a new class of mineral mines? Click on "upgrade" in the build queue overview, and upgrade build orders are inserted automatically for ALL planets that needs them. Wish I have had something like this in MOO2...



The AI is not as good as in GalCiv, although there are a few mods out there that enhance it. But SEIV really shines when it comes to multiplayer, the Play-By-Web site is a great support to the game. Be prepared, though, it is not a real-time game but turn-based, so PBW games even with deadlines of 24 hours will usually last several months. Though it is possible with a reliable partner on the same time zone to finish a 1-on-1 game within a month or so, depending on the galaxy size. But I like this "I can do a turn whenever I can slot in the time" rather than having to submit for 5 to 10 hours apiece to an online/realtime game.




[Message Edited]
Reply #11 Top
SEIV is a great game! But different than GalCiv which is another great game!

As I mentioned in another post it is like GalCiv is more of a strategic level game and SEIV is a tactical level.

The strengths of SEIV such as ship design multiple branches of tech tree, mod-ability, etc is a weakness in that the AI can only be so good. ALthough there are a couple of good mods that users have created that improve upon the AI.

GalCiv has limited ships, techs, etc. but allows the developer to write a very good AI because he can programmatically know the bounds of the universe.

Get both games, they are great!
Reply #12 Top
I love SEIV!.
but, then I am a nuts-and-bolts technical kind of guy.

SJ, PVK, Hrothgar, and others have said things I agree with.
Reply #13 Top
I loved SE3, thought SEIV was too complicated and never really got into it. I was very sad. Maybe i'll take another look when i am out of games to play. Another SE would be good. The gfx in SEIV i thought were really awful. Oh well.
Reply #14 Top
I have SEIV. It's interesting but it has some problems.

First, the intelligence system is royally messed up, you get a better game if you turn it off entirely.

Second, the tactical combat engine is buggy. I've built fleets that would win without loss against anything the AI fielded *IF* I managed the battle directly. However, I would say there was at least a 10% chance of a lockup doing so.

Third, the pathfinder AI has a nice problem: If the route is blocked it will sit there going back and forth forever.

Fourth, the so-called AI seems incapable of tearing down a building, nor even building the best building. On a max tech start (so it certainly has the tech for them) it never builds atmosphere transformers, nor for that matter *ANY* planet or system improvement techs. Nor does it ever build those multi-purpose mining facilities. It builds research facilities at max tech.

Fifth, the AI is very bad about handling minesweeping. I've won games without ever building a single warship--only colonizers and mines. Sometimes an AI makes a design with a minesweeper but generally not. I think it's random and not in reaction to what the human does.

My multi-page bug list produced an inadequate refutation of a few points (so what if the problem with the mining is in the race scripting? I was playing against a normal AI race--*THEIR* scripts!) and most of them were ignored.

When the only upgrade path was the Gold version for which you have to pay I gave up on them.

I think the game has a lot of merit but it seems to me they tried to do it too cheap.
Reply #15 Top
I hate having to desing my own SHIPS! It pisses me off for some unknown reason! One of the reason I could never play SMAC!