Hardest game possible

from Stardock Forums
A while back a newby started a thread complaining the game wasn't hard enough. Several posters suggested ways of making the game harder, but I wondered what factors would make it hardest.

Besides, I am bored with lightning games.

I have tried several times with the following setup and restrictions:

1) one opponent, diametrically opposed alignment, incredible intelligence
2) gigantic map, rare
3) ironman rules -- no cheat keys, no ctl-n, no saving before dangerous actions. (saving after successes is OK for system crashes)
4) cannot initiate diplomacy with major. only transactions allowed are conceeding demands and accepting peace.
5) no terror stars, no cultural starbases, no alpha strike. Normal, multi-prong military buildup is acceptable, but you cannot distribute forces calculated to take out opponent in 1-2 turns.

Of 6 or 7 starts I just won my first. Rating was "simple" hehe and metaverse points were around 15K. I started with econ 20, range +1, speed +1, sensors +2. I didn't have time to build a single production starbase -- we were at war from battle cruisers through rangers, when I finally got an advantage and he sued for peace. my infrastructure was solid and I had 80% of the resources, so I cranked research to avatars, then cranked out combat transports and avatars and swept him into the ashbin in the corner. He only had 8 planets and I had around 30, and I was lucky to have won.

Ways to make it harder -- leave UP, don't take starting bonuses, no diplomacy at all

Thoughts on a challenge like this?
2,783 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I tried something like that on a smaller map, but allowing myself some diplomacy. It was very difficult because I was permanently short of cash.

Some more ideas for self-imposed restrictions in standard games:

Keep social spending at zero throughout
Keep military spending at zero throughout (You could probably win by trading for ships, as long as you didn't need to expand too far)
Declare war on everyone as soon as you meet them
Give all techs you research free to all the AIs on the turn you research them (or sell them for a token price like 1 influence point, since gifts aren't always accepted)
Or all of the above (might be possible, on a low enough difficulty?)


~SDC~
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm impressed.

I think scattered/abundant stars would be harder--your thoughts? Of course it would take forever. Maybe try scattered/abundant/huge?
Cannot initiate diplomacy with minor races would add a lot of difficulty too. Or no trade with minor races.
Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
I was thinking of creating an "Andromeda" scenario. You give the humans one planet and one super-ship, a ranger with lots of upgrades. Otherwise, fill out the map with the remaining planets evenly divided among the AIs and minors. That could be interesting.

I couldn't figure out how to get the scenario editor to make it work.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
vincible
yeah, abundant would be vastly harder, now that you mention it. I have been playing rare so long it was automatic hehe

I think abundant gigantic with one opponent would take *months* hehe

The game I won I felt guilty about accepting peace, though I did wait until his third offer and took some techs so I could declare victory. Maybe arch enemies -- no peace with Major and no exploiting minors in peace deals.

The biggest problem I am having with scattered is the AI getting stuck in a corner with three planets but you don't find him for 3 hours.

Next try will be abundant / non-scattered.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxtipherous:

Why not first play a game at maso with abundant, Gigantic, scattered, all aliens, all victory conditions allowed and no others limitations (so you can trade, exchange tech ..) to see how difficult is this setting? After that, you can think how to make it harder and still winnable.
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
Hardest game: Mod the colony ship range to 0. You can't expand unless you get some +range or build starbases. The ai, having a +1 range bonus at incredible level, can. Pick abundant yellow stars, scattered, small or tiny map. Just you and the evil Drengin or Altarian.
Also neither talk to the minors nor invade the minors.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I've been playing abundant gigantic for quite a while. It is very difficult, with most of the major decisionmaking occurring in the diplomacy screen. For that reason, I usually start with Speed +1 and everything else in diplomacy. I prefer to play scattered so that I won't have to build extra starbases for range. I would think that clusters would be harder for the player, but I suspect that the human player is better at dealing with the range limitations than the AI. However, the AI gets the research boost, and will get better range earlier. It could go either way.

It sounds like you have noticed the lower Metaverse scores associated with longer, slower games. As always, the scoring system could use a little work. I can't wait for the Metaverse upgrades coming soon!

To make the game harder, you can always just not spend your starting ability points at all. That's what I used to do on MOO2, since it gave you extra scoring points for not using the ability bonuses.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
jmforhan
Why not first play a game at maso with abundant . . .
End of quote

I have -- I usually use a cultural type style with this setting, because you can flip numerous planets at once.
Mod the colony ship range to 0
End of quote

ouch! lets say hardest without mods.

Update: gigantic, abundant, scattered with one opponent is ugly. I am setting these criteria for phase 1 (first contact):
30-40 colony ships
research to corvette (cheapest maintenance)
100% military to build corvettes

My major issue is I cannot create a remotely deffensive position, and my military is only 10% of his. He inevitably declares war shortly after making contact.

I will try production bonuses to bump colony ships to 1 turn, which I hope will help.

Suggestions?
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
I am wondering if on gigantic, abundant, maso, 1 opponnent, scattered is hardest than tight cluster: with scattered, the galaxy will be full of empty sector so cultural flipping will be harder since it must propagate through lots of empty sectors.
Sure you will be have more time to build a strong military before the war declaration, but does it mean that victory is easier?
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
gigantic, abundant, scattered with one opponent is ugly.
End of quote

I bet it is. Particularly if the ai starts in the other corner. My one-opponent game was won thanks to the minors:
Trade was the key because the map was not a big one. It may still help: You have to find the minors, trade with them and make sure they go to war with the other major. They'll trade with you, and you only. This will help a bit. The major will also want to trade with you, which may prevent him from becoming hostile too early.
My idea is then to try to avoid war until you have AMMs. Giving in to threats may be an option. You don't care if they have avatars as long as you can have AMMs.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
jmforhan --
the rules I have set up for this challenge include no cultural starbases *wink*. With clusters you get limited, channelled growth, natural lines of defence, and as you said, time to guild up military. With scattered the AI just grows until he envelops you.

LDiCesare
amm's? I can't get to battleships hehe. I am going to try shifting to about a 30 planet expansion and live with the cultural pressure from all sides. Yeah, like that's gonna work.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
Don't research any military and pray for someone to get dreadnought. I never get dreadnought tech before the other ai's have dreads or avatars floating all around. I usually don't have much of an army either, except sometimes a symbolic battle hammer per planet.
Try not expanding. The ai will have a hard time finding you, try to grab the influence wonders and build +influence projects. A resource would be nice too, but it seems unlikely you can find nd hold more than what the ai will get.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
LDiCesare wrote:
Don't research any military and pray for someone to get dreadnought
End of quote


I'm wondering if this can be done with only 1 major AI.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Maxtipherous wrote:
jmforhan -- the rules I have set up for this challenge include no cultural starbases *wink*. With clusters you get limited, channelled growth, natural lines of defence, and as you said, time to guild up military. With scattered the AI just grows until he envelops you.
End of quote


I understand defense is easier in cluster. But it should be the same for the AI. So trying to put a foot in the ennemy territory shouldn't be an easy thing. And trying to keep it without cultural flip too. Maybe the AI isn't bright enough to succeed in invading your terrory with military only. I'm wondering with this setting if the AI could do a tech win. Which is another way to loose a game.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm wondering if this can be done with only 1 major AI.
End of quote


Of course. The other major will. Some minors will probably be able to do so, too. The point is that the major WILL be ahead of you in tech, so it will research it first. You may well be lucky and get it from an ai-initiated trade if you have techs to spare, or get it by a lucky landing on one of its worlds before it's built tons of these to crush you. Or you caneven buy it. Planets are worth a lot, so you might give it one world to take them all over (or give a few worlds, having parked transports nearby - I never tried that, but it might work?).