Frustration and Financial Craziness

from Stardock Forums
Well, my latest game. A huge challenging. Was doing well, as one of the two evil empires. Wouldn't you know it. What random event did I get? Fundamentalists. Happened the last time I played evil, as well.

I think the event is neat-- and needed. It's an additional risk that creates a true downside to playing evil. But it's also terribly frustrating when it happens to you.

This time, they only nabbed one of my secondary planets. That was fine-- I could live with that. (Unlike in the last game, when they took control of my two main producers on a small map.) But what really killed me is that they took over both of the Arceans' planets, just a few turns after I had formed an alliance with the only like-minded empire in the galaxy. I hoped to give the Arceans' forces a combat transport, allowing them to re-take one of their worlds. But of course, their empire just vanished the next turn. (Had *I* only had two planets, that couldn't have happened to me, could it have?) But from an outside perspective, sort of an interesting turn of events, eh? It just vehemently annoyed me, as the Arceans were helping me fend off a third of the map-- filled with angry Drengin and Torian warships.

In the end, I prevailed. I have to admit, the Fundamentalists event almost made my game more fun. In dismantling the Arceans, it also set me up for a quick cultural victory once the once-mighty Torians had surrendered, and I had conquered the Drengin's last stronghold.

But here's the kicker:

Who wanted a peace treaty just a couple of turns after the Arceans' fall? The Fundamentalists. I wasn't going to give it to them. After all, as a new minor empire, they had no tech for trade as conditions of the armistice. And it wouldn't be that hard for me to re-take my own planet, and to conquer the Arceans' old domain. But then, I noticed that the Fundamentalists had a fairly large treasury. Around 4,300, it was. I thought, "Hey, might as well see what they'd give me." I started high. I got to around 400 x 24. The number just seemed to rise, without limit. I started to think that I might have come across some sort of exploit. Until it topped out. At 4,000 x twenty-odd months! Again, "Could this be a bug?" I wondered. But as I feel no great compunction when it comes to stealing from those who get in the middle of my affairs, I took the offer.

This probably allowed me to defeat the Drengin and the Torians a little faster than I would have. After all, Death Knight maintenance isn't cheap. But I ask you: have *you* ever come across something as bizarre as this? An empire/race willing to pay you such an astronomical sum? Do you think this is an exploit? If so, I'll submit it to the current bug report.

Honestly, I'm quite curious. I wasn't using any sort of diplomatic bonus outside of the one or two techs that I had researched.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
Actually, this frequently happens with minors. If they have cash and their power is a joke next to yours, you can ask for whatever they have... there money will stop when you kill them.

You do run a danger of having too much cash, which means a '0' score if you do this a lot though...

Happy Raiding,
Cypher
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Yeah, after reading Sirian's thread, I had that on my mind.

Still seems ridiculous, though. You can start *buying* capital ships with that kind of cash flow. Personally, I used it to make a few "mini soldiers" invasions.

Thanks, Cypher.
Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
But I ask you: have *you* ever come across something as bizarre as this? An empire/race willing to pay you such an astronomical sum? Do you think this is an exploit?
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Sure. Though I never met them myself, I hear talk of the Draginol popping up and people being able to make them pay absolutely monstrous sums for an almost immediate peace treaty. Is it an exploit? In my book it is. The way I see it, if some minor race gets created (whether it be something dramatic like the Fundies or some lone, independent newcomer to the map), they should have some teeth behind them and be willing to put up something of a fight before even thinking of a peace treaty. Or, if that is not feasable, have them immediately surrender to some other power (human or not) in the surpise "we surrender, but nobody gets paid anything but our planets" manner.
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I'm relatively new to the community, but I tend to agree. (I certainly wouldn't be so willing to rip off your typical minor race-- Fundamentalists who have effected me are the exception.) "Pop-up" minor races just have no chance of surviving any time past the mid-game. They just become a bonus planet to the first empire to send a troop transport over.

In the case of the Fundamentalists, at least they have the original planet's population. You'd think that they'd also seize a planet's orbiting ships, or something-- though if they took over a highly defended planet in the middle of a war, that wouldn't be fair.

But it's funny that you suggest that they should immediately surrender if under-powered. My next door planet had a morale of 12 after the take over, and soon became part of the I-League. (Though that did nothing to improve morale-- though it did give them financial and military clout. I wouldn't have wanted to take on the I-League, at the time.)
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
But it's funny that you suggest that they should immediately surrender if under-powered.
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Let's put it this way: if it is the difference between extorting a 150,000 BC peace treaty out of a pipsqueak you are going to invade next turn anyway or having them roll over immediately and surrender to someone, giving them only the planet and NO CASH, no nothing else, then I will suggest surrender and no cash. You would be surprised to hear the depths of cheesiness (in my opinion) I have seen over several months. And the Spymaster sees a lot of things around the Meta. I just feel sorry for the people who have to try and code around the exploit of the month club all while trying to keep the players and the boss happy at the same time. Self-restraint is not a popular option in the Meta at times.

(Edit: Gerakken went into Don Quixote mode again. But, those the risks when dealing with him. Sometimes he is going to be a bit blunt. Misguided to some maybe, but blunt...)
[Message Edited]
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I can see how it must be a problem. Honestly, between this and MMORPG staffs, I've found an area of the gaming industry that I wouldn't want to work in. Personally, considering that I'm relatively new to the game, I didn't feel guilty about extorting $4,000 a turn from those wretched Fundamentalists. But you speak of $150,000? That's absurd, and would have devastating affects on balance. Perhaps the "anomalous" bar *doesn't* need to be raised.... Though an in-game warning of what's fair play would be nice. Because you *should* be able to do all that you can to benefit in the game-- though what you can do should only be fair.

Which just brings us back to the beginning. Fair play advocates, exploiters, and the development staff caught in between.
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Though an in-game warning of what's fair play would be nice
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An in-game warning when an action would lead to an anomalous score would be *so* nice!
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
I would rather see new, colonizable planets than the addition of new Minor civilizations in the late game. That is, instead of getting the message, "We are the Pushovers and we have claimed these worlds in our name. Beware!", you'd get "Our sensors have determined that an anomalous event in Sector X-Y has resulted in N planets of the Martz system becoming viable. We should send a colony ship to claim this system immediately." Nobody gets any free cheese, but there is still a race for the system.

End transmission.

~SDC~