Stalemate

from Stardock Forums
Well, its just me the Drengins and the Carinoids left.

Drengins and I both have huge militarys (equal strength according to the graph) and are on the last available tech researches. They have close relations with me and all my trade routes except 2 go to them (10 in total). We both control about equal number of resources. However the Drengins don't seem to be upgrading their starbases at the sam rate as me. The Drengins have an off and on war with carinoids, and I've been supplying the Carinoids with an occasional tech boost to help with finances and to keep going against the Drengins.

Can I defeat them? My strategy at the moment is to build up all my resource starbases, and the others to maximum mining, economic, defensive and military abilities, while using my trade routes to maintain income. I have tried culture bombing but even though a couple of their planets are in sectors well under my influence, their cultural resistance seems to high for me to convert them. I am also using about 500 BC per month on destabilisation, which so far seems only to have reduced their happiness from 92% to 87%.

My eventual plan is that when I have maxed out all my starbases on miltary and defensive,to engage on a massive simultaneous attack on their planets and starbases. Hopefully my military bonuses from the starbases will compensate from any military deficiency I may have by then.

Any chance of this working, or should I just go for an easy win by allying with them? I'm worried that they may reach the final technology before me. Would this constitute an 'alien tech' victory? (never seen this happen before)

Cheers, Stupot
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Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, I hadn't thought of that.

I have about 25 grand in the bank to play with.

Would I get any inbuilt bonuses along with it??

Stupot
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Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
I don't have any tech to spare, although occasionally I am stealing some off him.

I don't know how many techs there are left. From memory, I'm researching near omnipotence ( or maybe it was onmiscience)

We're basically running almost neck on neck with techs, altough I think the Drengins are getting each new tech a few turns in front of me.

Stupot
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
If you conducted espionage and reach the "medium" level (i think - this might be "high"), you will be able to see his abilities on the stats-tab of the diplomacy screen
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
if you want to be certain, find out where his Industrial planets are and then send 5 constructors to each, and Terrastar them on the day when your offensive starts, do not build them until you want to attack though
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
Your problem will be the loss of trade income. The fastest way to win is to ally yourself with them - won -end game. Now if you want it harder, build culture starbases outside their sectors, party palaces there, until their worlds start flipping. You will stay at peace, keep the trade routes, and they will soon be unable to pay for their fleet. From there on, you'll have more worlds, more power, more everything.
If you really want it hard, try to attack maybe 3 or 4 of their systems with Anti matter missiles built for that purpose, invade and defend with one or two big ships. If you can deal a blow to their military rating, they'll accept peace afterwards, particularly if you give them back one of the 4 stars you just took (you net a benefit of 3 anyway). Repeat this once or twice. Also, think of reloacting all trade routes to the Carinoids before attacking.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
Also find his best planets,pq wise and take these first.This will help you crank out the better ships faster and cause him seriuos problems as his best tax planets just was aquired by you.
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Well, if you are concerned about a long war, use cultural attacks to flop his best planets.

Alternately, You can spend 25,000 for 100 turns, buy all the Drengin's military (thus shutting down your economy completely) , demand his planets in a series of declaring war and sueing for peace -- haha my latest ugly exploit.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
I am also using about 500 BC per month on destabilisation,
End of quote


Which I have found out to be a waste. Even if they get to 1 moral, they might join "I-League" per se. I have my doubts destablization works on the culture flip. I find the money better spent of constructors/ships and go the culture bomb route or massed assualt.
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Well Aaberq, your advice worked.

I immediately purchased the Drengin's 4 best starbases (a couple deep in their territory) over the next few turns. They were given away for about 3000 over 3 years each, which I thought was a bargain.

My investment in culture bombing then paid off, as 4 planets then flipped over to me. Admittedly they were the low pop planets that I already had surrounded, but it has caused a significant drop in their military graph.

I have had to cut back on the destabilisation as a couple of my trade routes have been lost (as I have gained the trading planets, and I need to pay for the starbases) but it is still running at about 80 BC per month. Their morale has dropped to about 78%.



My plan now is to go back to max trade routes to build the treasury back up, and then purchase the remaining starbases. I will also upgrade the starbases I have purchased. Then, let 'The Great Assault' begin. Hopefully now I can maintain my military advantage until then.

BTW iam playing a tough game on a large map. I control the center, and the Drengings control the SW and NE corners


BTW, can anyone enlighten me on the alien tech victory?

Also, think of reloacting all trade routes to the Carinoids before attacking.
End of quote


I have not done this, as I wish to maintain good relation with the Drengins for as long as possible. Also, I want to have long trade routes, and the Carinoids are in the middle of my empire.

Stupot
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
From what I have found out, a shorter trade route with a minor, enhanced by a couple of trade starbases is much better than a long trade route witha major.

Alien tech victory basicly closes the human tech victory option. (all other options still available)
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Trading with your enemy is not a good idea: it gives them as much income as yourself from the trade route.

Switch all your routes to the Carinoids, surround that system(s) with your ships to protect against the Drengin.
Boost with trade SB's.

Added advantage: with the extra income, the Carinoids will be better able to put up a fight.

Before the Great Attack, have AMM's and constructors parked near the Drengins SB's (especially the Mil. ones). Destroy SB, rebuild as your own.

cheesy:Immediately save/ reload to get the Mil. bonuses on the same turn (and have the Drengin lose them in that turn).
Makes for a better Pearl Harbor!

von Schmidt
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
Glad to hear that you are on your way to kicking ass

Like stupot I allways try to keep as much trade as possible with any threatning AI. I produce freighter and keep them close to a secondary AI (be it major or minor) - in this way i can switch fast when it is time for "Alpha strike".

Another trick could be to bribe AI's into war (if they have trade with each other). That trade will then be directed to you instead. This of course has to be carried out with caution, because you risk one AI defeating another and thus gaining strenght.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
If you dont have alliance victory checked then get an alliance with the drengin and then switch all trade routes to minors and culture bomb away.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Sorry I missed this earlier. If the Drengins are the big power and you are close, the *easiest* way to win is to ally. If you have alliance victory turned off the game continues and this alliance allows you to put party palaces inside the allie's sectors (in this case the Drengin) and eventually win a military victory. Culuture bombing is fast with about one 253% party palace per AI star system per sector. You may need two party palaces to get the chain reaction going and of course influence starbases and the trade goods & wonders for influence help too.

As eradicus implies, park a bunch of freighters near the minors to keep some form of trade going as you culutre flip your trading partners. And, if you ally with everyone (minors too) simulataneously, then your worries about war are over. I can't always get everyone to ally but when I can, the game ends fast. Good luck. :)
[Message Edited]
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
This is what actually happened, as it it so happens....however I never allied with the drengins as I hadn't turned allied victory off, and I didn't wan't an allied victory to occur.

I actually had cultural victory turned off, and I eventually won by culture flipping all the planets, This was classed as a military victory, even though I never went toowar with the drengins :notsure:

For some reason I was under the impression that I wouldn't be able to culture flip the last planet, as I had cultural victory turned off.

I have since started a new game, same galaxy size (large) and habitable planet density (common). However I have switched to being a universalist (I was an industrialist), and have upgraded the arcean intelligence from bright to intelligent (or vice versa, I can't remember which is higher). The game is still classified as tough overall.

I am finding this significantly more difficult. The main problem seems to be that I have very low pop growth at the start, and consequently find it hard to maintain cultural dominance over my empire. This in turn makes the AI civ's hostile toward me, as they see my planets and ships in their territory.

I am on 4th effort on this game, having aborted 3 earlier attempts. I have learnt that I have to aggresively build up my military strength. But because of this, I lag in tradin and cultual developments.

I am also starting to think that being a universalist does not really help much. I hope this difficulty level isn't going to be the barrier I can't push through (:( (:(

Thoughts? Suggestions? (particularly on what you think of being a universalist)


Cheers, Stupot
Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
I personally do not like the universalist party as the bonuses are small (which does not help much in the critical early game where base numbers are small - the game rounds down). Luck is also an undeveloped trait which is currently not very useful.

I strongly recommend Populists. The diplomacy and morale bonuses are very useful.

You are right that a lower population has a detrimental effect on your influence and thus the AIs influence can overshadow even your occupied sectors.

I don't believe the higher influence actually makes the AI any more hostile to you. It is probably a result of the AI's superior economic and military strength, which could be a result of a better starting position. Check the diplomacy screen, you should be very wary of AIs with Economic and Military classified as Strong or Strongest.

Counter this by either building up your economy and/or military or by giving the AI tribute.

Pop growth is very important in the early game. Choose pop growth picks if you wish - they are nice. Make sure you maintain 100% morale on all if not most of your planets for much of the early game. Note that 100% morale gives double the growth rate as compared to 54-99% morale.
Reply #19 from Stardock Forums Top
Universalists is ok, but I think you usually benefit more from more focused pol parties (+20 econ or diplo or morale come to mind).
Check the strat forum. The maso strategies thread has a lot of advice that can be used successfully at lower difficulty levels. Mostly, trade techs with other races (for other techs, money, IP, ships, whatever), keep your spendings high, don't worry if you get in the red, and get Diplomatic Translators. Then get resources (build on them, but them, cause the ai to destroy one another's and then build when the resource is left free). Then finish them however you like, typically by using culture starbases and settling PQ 13-14 or even lower inside the ai's sectors where you already have some influence (will boost your cultural starbase effect).
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
Then get resources (build on them, but them, cause the ai to destroy one another's and then build when the resource is left free).
End of quote


I am attempting this, although, I never have the chance for the starbases to build up a suffient defence, so they get zapped. Say goodbye to my investment in constructors >:(

I just seem to be behind the 8 ball generally...

Having said all this, I hope the game I'm on is going better. I'm at war with the arceans, but I do have a class 31 planet building dreadnoughts. I have also launched an expedition against an undefended arcean system in the sw corner. Hopefully when I get there it won't be defende as I only have 1 dreanought escorting the combat transport. I have neither the population or resources to send additional combat transports. I hope by taking this I will regain the cultural influence across my empire. It contains 2 class 21 planets, and I hope by taking this it will cause the arceans to accept a peace treaty.


Stupot
Reply #21 from Stardock Forums Top
. It contains 2 class 21 planets, and I hope by taking this it will cause the arceans to accept a peace treaty.
End of quote


After reading my post, to clarify...the system I intend to invadeconatins 2 class 21 planets...
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
I forgot the most important part:
Don't be at war! You want to be at war when YOU want, not when they want. The best way not to be at war is to keep the ai busy fighting one another. Thye like fighting the minors, so you can give ships to minors so they last longer, or give 2 techs to the altarians so they attack the arceans, and 2 techs to the arceans so they fight the drengin (who hopefully were already at war with the Torians who fought the Yor).
Then, you can give in to threats when they want any sum of money that won't get you in the red. Build up some military and, if they are fighting each other, they shoudn't be above you. This will allow you never to build a +defense module. If you really have to defend a starbase, use ships to that end. Just station one or two big defenders there.
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
Don't be at war! You want to be at war when YOU want, not when they want.
End of quote


I understand this...but for whatever reason, I can't help getting war declared on me >:(

vis a vis my earlier post, I thought I was getting war declared on me because of my lack of cultural influence (:(

Thanks for your tips anyway

Stupot
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
Don't be at war! You want to be at war when YOU want, not when they want.
End of quote


I understand this...but for whatever reason, I can't help getting war declared on me >:(

vis a vis my earlier post, I thought I was getting war declared on me because of my lack of cultural influence (:(

Thanks for your tips anyway

Stupot