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My rant about uxtheme patching and msstyles

My rant about uxtheme patching and msstyles

I'm in a ranting mood today. So I'm going to talk about the whole msstyles, uxtheme, thing on Windows XP.  Now this rant is not aimed at people who choose to make msstyles. I have a very high opinion of anyone who takes time to share with the world anything they create regardless of whether it's for Litestep, msstyles, Hoverdesk, or of course our stuff.

Windows XP comes with its own "visual style engine". That's how you get the blue, silver, and green "styles". But that's all there are. That's because the interface to change them, uxtheme.dll will only use Microsoft digitally signed msstyles (the file that contains the "visual style").  So if you want more, you've got two choices: 1) You can make your own format and apply them (which is what WindowBlinds does) or 2) You can try to crack the security out so that you can use unsigned msstyles.

This is a bit of a sore point for me as a software developer because certain..companies have made it out that they are actually skinning Windows when in fact all they've done is crack the security built into uxtheme.dll.  Hey, if you want to mess with your system DLLs then it's your system, go for it. But what really rips me is how companies try to make it out like patching uxtheme.dll is somehow a safe and easy thing. It is if you're reasonably technical. But those who advocate that don't tend to show up when a new Windows XP service pack shows up and the system won't boot or their title bars are all missing or whatever.  The same company doing this stuff is planning on adding support to change the "boot screen".  I somehow doubt they'll make it clear that to change the boot screen you have to patch the actual Windows kernel (which is why we don't mess with that).  Similarly, those patching uxtheme are stuck having to replace their shellstyles.dll. There are whole websites now that allow people to essentially distribute copyrighted parts of the Windows OS without a) any regard to the piracy issues and b) without recognizing that when you replace the actual code binaries, bad things may happen in the future. 

That said, I have nothing against people patching uxtheme.dll to apply their own hacked msstyles (there's no such thing as a pure .msstyles file -- they are actually a .DLL renamed with graphics resources inside which means, amongst other things, it's a dead end -- come Longhorn, .msstyles go bye bye).  I just wish its proponents (as well as companies that make a profit off of cracking Microsoft's digital signing security) would be up front about what they do instead of passing what they're doing A) as "their" work and B) Stop making it out like patching out system DLL security is somehow a "native" way of getting more visual styles. To me native doesn't include the words "patching" and "system files" in the same sentence.

And patching uxtheme certainly doesn't add features. It just means you can, basically, replace the bitmaps of the Windows XP blue, silver, green, msstyle.  This is probably why when Microsoft wants to add more visual styles for a promotion like with the Xbox or Age of Mythology it's WindowBlinds they use as well as what they recommend to OEMs. WindowBlinds doesn't hack the system. What really galls me is the idea that someone would charge the unwary for the patch. It would be like charging money for a program that changes wallpaper because users didn't know where the wallpaper changing dialog was.  I probably wouldn't have such a hard time with the charging of such patching if there was some value-add.

So that's my two cents on that subject. Incidentally, *I* do have my uxtheme patched because I use both WindowBlinds visual styles and msstyles. I certainly didn't pay to do it, I did it myself with a hex editor. But I've been digging into OS internals for over a decade and I don't freak out if my system doesn't boot up. I know how to get back to a command line and mess around with system restore if need be.  But that's the thing, I know what I'm getting myself into. I suspect most normal people with lives who are interested in customizing their PCs just want to download a program that will work well. Not one that may or may not work on the next service pack.

The only other sore point about msstyles is their relentless advocates. People who would, if they could, wreck skinning for the long term because they hate the idea of someone making money on customizing.  Hey, if you want to use msstyles, go for it. It's your PC. But don't go on some web forum and tell people it's somehow better than WindowBlinds because, sorry, that's ridiculous. Besides being relativley primitive in features, msstyles are slower, use more RAM, are larger to download, don't fully skin existing programs, and have only a fraction of the # of visual styles that are available for WindowBlinds. Oh and did I mention they're doomed after XP?

That isn't to say WindowBlinds is perfect. But it is to Photoshop what msstyles are to MS Paint. MS Paint is not a bad start but don't try to argue that it's better than Photoshop. Oh, and in this analogy, Photoshop uses less RAM than MS Paint.

These days the more vocal msstyles zealots will try to say "Well, all the WindowBlinds skins are bloated and ugly.." which means, of course, that they didn't really bother to look. If you scan the net for msstyles, you'll find that they are typically just like Windows XP except now a different hue. Maybe they're purplish.  Of course, you can do this with WindowBlinds without having to find a new visual style since WindowBlinds can change the color of a skin on the fly. That doesn't mean there aren't great msstyles floating around on the net -- there are (of course, SkinStudio can convert them to WindowBlinds since WindowBlinds is a superset of features but I digress). 

But the thing is, WindowBlinds has been around for 5 or so years now, its community has moved way beyond the initial hacker demographic that the msstyles user base is at (and likely to stay at since, like I said, it does require you to crack system DLLs to use which ain't for the average user).  So the styles and tastes are all over the place now. But yea, it too for the first couple of years mainly fixated on those minimalist "Look, it's like KDE!" skins.

22,470 views 74 replies
Reply #26 Top
I understand where Frog is coming from, however I 'd have to disagree with the point about msstyles being slower and using more resources, etc. I am a fan of Style XP, and it runs alot smoother on my machine than WB does for some reason..this is a nearly new machine with alot of RAM too..I think there are equally good and bad things about both programs, I just prefer StyleXP, tho alotta great skins are made for WB as well. I do agree on the boot screen issue, I personally do not tinker with that, just outta fear of borking my rig,lol.
Reply #27 Top
Why would you us Style XP over the free uxtheme.dll patch?
Reply #28 Top
Because of the all the centralized features in it I , I can change the login, wallpaper and the theme in one place. And the patch I wouldn't do because when I get tired of StyleXP, I just have to uninstall it, the patch seems like alot of unnecessary tinkering around to get things back the way they were I guess.
Reply #29 Top
I don't know about the less Ram thing... it also depends on what skin you use when it comes to Windowblinds.

For me, even if it didn't run faster on my computer, I would Choose WB because it skins more stuff and is more flexable.

could be the graphics card or maybe its a Celron Processor your on (just a guess cause my siters computer does some interesing stuff with image apps on XP... haven't narrowed it down yet though...)
Reply #30 Top
I don't know how msstyles patching or stylexp works, but patching a dll just don't work for me. I prefer windowblinds with a whole lot more features.
Reply #31 Top
OK, It's been ages since I've tried msstyles but I think the reason people don't understand the memory issues related to msstyles is because there aren't any indications of how much memory a skin running on msstyles is using. If I remember correctly the skinning engine shows up as one or more of the many svchost.exe processes in the task manager. Now, this can be mis-leading because even running Windowblinds I currently have 4 svchost processes the biggest of which is 23,480K. So, perhaps since people can't see a process called XPSkin or something with a ram amount associated with it they automatically think their skin isn't using as much as say the wbload process which is currently what I would consider to be a drop in the bucket at 2,160K. I may be waaay off here but I would think that this is a perfectly good explanation of people's seemingly unfounded assurances that msstyles use less memory. All I know for sure is that WB has gotten so good that I don't even bother to check the msstyle sites anymore!!



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Reply #32 Top
Good text, WB is perfect for 'family' PC's.

However I had a customer that wanted to buy a Theme, including icons etc to run on 10 PCs.
I adviced him to use windowblinds and iconpackager (promote me to jouneyman' J/K )
but he didn't see that as a good solution (due to the fact he had to buy 10 WB serials + 10 iconpackager serials. almost the same price as the whole skinpack.)

He said he would crack the uxtheme.dll's and wanted a styleXP theme to run on that. I have to admit, its easier for company's/large group of peoples to use a hack.
Reply #33 Top
maybe stardock offers a corporate package or something? I'm sold on WB myself.I cant look at my pc without it!Style XP has no appeal to me.I want everything skinned.I look forward to the capability to skin explorer icons in the next version of WB.The added features In SS are wonderful!I'm making my first WMP skin.Something I would never have tried without SS.(having a few probs with it but nothing that cant be straightened out once I learn more about it)
Reply #34 Top
IR, style XP das skin windows complete. (almost )

I am still waiting for their reply if I can upload it to wincustomize.
Reply #35 Top
If you run style xp you cant use any of MY superfabulous creations
Reply #37 Top
Reply #38 Top

Style XP doesn't skin anything whatsoever.

Nothing.

UXTheme can skin the GUI of Windows and Style XP enables you to use unsigned msstyles.

That's kind of the thing about my rant, Style XP and programs like that give off the false impression that they actually do skin something.

As for a corporation using something -- Stardock does massive licensing of WindowBlinds techs all the time.

A corporation violating their Windows EULA and creating a future support nightmare is hardly one with a good plan in place.

Reply #39 Top
It does bother me when I see people say false things about WindowBlinds and StyleXP when their clearly aren't knowledgeable about them (such as saying that msstyles don't use any memory). It is rather funny though when some people say that the StyleXP "theme engine" is better than the Windows XP one. Maybe Stardock should consider changing the name of the service under which WindowBlinds runs to svchost. Then nobody could claim that WindowBlinds uses more memory!



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Reply #40 Top
Indeed. Maybe WindowBlinds 5 should just call itself svchost.exe and then we can claim "zero footprint".
Reply #42 Top
process/thread viewer
Reply #43 Top
I was saying that StyleXP works better for me, it uses memory, anything you do does, but it does not create a slow down like I have experienced with WB. WB just seems kind of bloated and I have had it crash more than once while using it. Style XP has never crashed. That is something I take into account also.And you say it doesn't skin everything? Define everything....Everything on my pc is skinned with StyleXP.
Reply #44 Top
You are missing the point No.75. StyleXP does not skin anything because all it does is hack a .dll so that other skins can be used by WinXP's msstyle's engine. StyleXP does not need to run in the background. You only execute it to change msstyle themes. A WinXP box running a msstyle theme uses more memory than a WinXP box running Windowblinds.
Reply #45 Top
I want to also add that Windowblinds goes further than msstyles in terms of customizability. msstyles -, box, and x bottons cannot be moved around like on Windowblinds. Additional buttons can be added using a Windowblinds skin. mssstyles was only designed to do the Luna Blue, Olive, and Silver themes well.
Reply #46 Top
WB has never crashed on my pc. Nor does it slow it down.I'm only running 1 gig proc.
[Message Edited]
Reply #47 Top
Well one msstyles skinner's view is contained in the comments section for his first WB skin: https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?searchtext=MRS+Forever&sort=updatedate&order=Descending&library=1

And as noted, the program StyleXP is not needed to use msstyles, only the crack.

There is more that can be skinned via WB and more flexibility in skin design than is allowed via XP's native abilities. At least that's what skinners who've done skins for both WB and msstyles say. But if you prefer just msstyles, that's certainly your perogative. Some talented skinners have done some quite good work with msstyles IMO.
Reply #48 Top
wait a minute... I had the impression from the Style XP sit and download areas that it did not change shell styles?

I just went there and low and behold I saw some screenshots with the shellstyle changed.

Anyway, WB is the better option. I can't imagine not having the options it has.
Reply #49 Top
No. 75, I beg to differ. If you're using StyleXP "Everything" on your PC is not skinned. Why? Simply stated, StyleXP cannot skin all the components that WindowBlinds can. There is no argument in this. It's just fact.
Reply #50 Top
'everything' can be a product of myopia...