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A Poll regarding bandwidth and costs (important)

A Poll regarding bandwidth and costs (important)

This as good a time as any since this subject is going to have to be dealt with at some point:

Our Story So far...

As long time users know, the amount of traffic this site gets has steadily increased. This month something like 1.3 million unique individuals will visit this website.

Since the dot-com collapse, bandwidth prices have increasingly become painful because there's no realistic way to pay for the site via banner ads. We are getting ready to unveil Textbanners.net this next week and hopefully that will help (users can take out ads on the site directly for as little as $1 per day).

But realistically, we're at something like 50 megabits of bandwidth much of which is dedicated to this site.

Right now, Stardock pays for virtually all of the tab. The goal was always for WinCustomize to become self-sustaining. But as the site has grown, that hope has drifted further and further off. 

But to try to off-set costs, we instituted WinCustomize subscriptions. For $19.95 a user gets a 2 year subscription to the site which gives them unlimited downloads, 2 premium suites, and the WinCustomize browser along with 5,000 free impressions on TextBanners.net. 

Non-subscribers have been restricted to 50 megabytes of bandwidth they could consume in the form of downloads. You'll occasionally see a post by someone who suddenly discovers scruples and expresses his outrage and desire to defend innocent artists everywhere for having to pay to download more stuff. But it's been one of the few ways of getting people to subscribe or at least go away and go to some other site to download stuff.

Subscribers have helped us pay for new hardware, more bandwidth, etc. But it's still a fairly low percentage. Well not just fairly low but amazingly low (far less than 1% of visitors).

One reason for that is because Stardock customers are currently exempt from the bandwidth restriction. So are users with access levels Apprentice and up.

Who should pay the bills?

That's put Stardock in an awkward position. It's facing either having to raise the price on Object Desktop (the proposed price is $69.95 up front and $37.95 for renewals) or put some sort of cap on the amount of megabytes a non-subscriber Stardock customer can get. The proposal on that end is 250 megabytes.

We'd like to hear from you. Which way do you think is most fair? My opinion is that we should go with the 250 meg cap on SDof bandwidthvery few people download that amount of bandwidth so it would only affect a small percent (most of the bandwidth is used by a small percent btw).  Those users can contribute either by subscribing for $20 for 2 years or contributing in other ways (skins, themes, walls, message boards, etc. and gaining higher access).

What's your view?

18,152 views 69 replies
Reply #51 Top
The only question I have, and forgive me if I repeat since I skipped page 2, but if 250 limit will only affect a small amount of people will that really help enough? I suppose since its an option you feel it will.

The problem that WC has is that many of the skins posted on here are available at other sites that don't require payment of any kind. I download here first, not only because I'm a member, but because its usually here first. So I think certainly some way of assuring that skins that appear on WC are exclusive for a set time may help. If not for all apps, then a requirement for apps made by Stardock.

I agree that the $20 for 2 years is a bargain. The more we can promote that fact and all it contains the more support we can get here. It is difficult to convert people on the internet who are used to free, to start paying, but they will with the right reasons. It may not be in front of them enough the value to be found here.



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Reply #52 Top
No one really wants an increase in the price of SD products, so I think there should be a smaller cap on non-paying downloaders and make it very plain to them at the beginning what the cap is, so they won't have a "big surprise" when they reach their cap and can't download any more.
$20 a year is less than 6 cents a day. The entire Object Desktop suite is less than 14 cents a day.(initial cost, second year is less than 10 cents ) It would be difficult to find a better bargain(s). I consider the message board alone a valuable resource.
Reply #53 Top
/me Remembers what seems like a long time ago when there was no wincustomize but there was a Stardock Skin Library and there was never a whine anywhere about bandwidth.

Back then most of the WB skins were downloaded from Stardock with the rest being downloaded at Skinz.org. Granted I know that at that time there were not as many downloaders but, more downloaders of Stardock skins equates to more stardock paying customers which should be able to offset the cost of the website. If not then the “free” version of the Stardock products need more restrictions or a time limit. ( the competition is dead froggy and the fussers be d@med). Also I believe that the Current MB download limit per non customer need to be set at a number of downloads. For example many skins are only a few KB and 20 of them wouldn’t make 5 MB.

Also Stardock needs to realize that the skin library is a necessary evil for a company with as many skinnables as they have. NO Skin Library and Stardock Goes down the tubes. Before you say we could just use some other skin site as our library, no you couldn’t the immense amount of downloads would kill the site.

Caps on OD subscribers are unacceptable. These are the people that are signing your paychecks and they defiantly deserve the ability to download the skins for the products that they purchased from you. Caps on non-customers need to be set at a conservative amount and be called trial accounts or something of the sort.

This is a very simple supply and demand problem if the money supplied to stardock is not sufficient then the prices must go up. I purchased WB version 1.3 for $19.95 and then upgraded to OD for $34.95. Since then my base pay has increased considerably but the Stardock prices have not increased at all. I understand the purpose for the freeze in price but with the popularity of Stardocks products the price could be inched forward especially considering that most people are paying with plastic the difference between $19.95 and say $21.95 are not as crucial as when the person is paying with cash.

I am not in favor of a price increase but if it will close the yap of the bandwidth whiner then so be it. A couple dollar “ Cost of living” increase will probably not scare away many customers Also I might suggest a 1 yr subscription to WC at $11.00 or maybe $6.00 per 6 months. This strategy is used by many companies for subscription services.

One more idea, If upon purchase of OD or any stardock app there were a set amout of downloads from Wincustomize, then the option for say 2 or 3 dollars more unlimited downloads.

Random thoughts from TasT


Reply #54 Top
#24 by Wizop Koasati - 7/27/2003 6:30:13 PM I don't see how a 250 meg cap will help. You said very few use that much, so how does that make a difference?


250 is too much. I think it would be 'fair' to have a 50 Mb limit per week to browse and download skins, themes, etc.

But for the 'paid' option, as someone mentionned, it would be nice to have a 'one or two dollars per month' plan for two year. I'm sure almost anyone here can afford that - or at least its more acceptable (for the budget) than an one-time fee.



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Reply #55 Top

It's probably important here to stress, particularly to those new to the site, that these 'limits' referred to are about TOTAL downloads, not a timed monthly limit/whatever.

The idea is to allow a fair and equitable 'free' access before a line in the sand is reached where-by a person's obvious 'interest' in the site's 'stuff' is such that it would be appropriate that actual reciprocal contribution is made.

It's also important to differentiate between the straight 'user' and the 'contributor', [or 'user-contributor'], where with the latter such limits need not apply.

 

OK, back to your regular scheduled program...

Reply #56 Top
Woo-Hoo!! I passed the Jafo spell check!
Reply #57 Top
TasT...nope, you didn't....I'm just lazy today....Spell checker
Reply #58 Top
Would it be possible to restrict access to the latest, greatest, updated items to SD & WC subscribers?

Perhaps to have a newest release (additions) section for subscribers and you nonsubscribers can download last months stuff?

Just a couple of thoughts.



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Reply #59 Top
My view is to go with the subscription. As many others have stated, OD customers should not have to bear the load of supporting WC.
Reply #60 Top
I think StarDock has done plenty to give away certain things that would encourage people to go further and subscribe and buy.I think this whole issue can be traced back to the "Free Music" music and software thieves.Bandwidth costs big time.And so do programs like Sysmetrix,Object Dock,LogonXP,CursorXP.For people to take all this and ANY "Free" Art for granted and EXPECT IT,,is truly PITIFUL.
The artist as well is and should be looking for more than kind comments.And they should be supported by those who can afford it.If you can't afford it leave some positive feedback and help on the boards with newbies.These prices for Stardock programs and subscription's/UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS from Brilliant artists,both on the skinning and programming level,are quite a bargain.A very good deal with lots to choose from 24/7/365.Soooooooo,,I'm gonna go runnin' thru the halls and corridors,nook's-n-crannies of Stardock/WinCustomize naked all night long,,and download a BUTT-LOAD of stuff!!



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Reply #61 Top
Unlimited bandwidth is a myth, as any ISP could tell you. Therefore, no-one should have unlimited bandwidth at his/her disposal to download. Not visitors, not subscribers, not clients, not me.

Consider a system like we have over here with mobile phones: you can by pre-paid packages. With such a pre-paid package you have (say) six hours of phone time. When it's up, you can get a new package. Much more flexible than a regular subscription.

Now apply this to the case in question: each account gets 50M (just a random number). A subscriber can buy packages of 50M. A client (one who purchases a Stardock app) gets a number of free packages. This way you can regulate the flow without resorting to drastic measures.
Reply #63 Top
No free love? I think someone woke up on the wrong side of the outback. I thought you guys were supposed to be whimsical and sing songs like tie me kangaroo down sport, what a grouch.


OK .... and we all wear slouch hats, have Kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our cities, can ride stock horses and drink gallons of Fosters!
Butter me on both sides and call me a stereotype!
The things most people get out of 'free love' is pregnant or a nasty rash...or both
Reply #64 Top
Hey, I like craeonics idea! It would be smart to have 50 mb indeed (or something) then there is also a way to hold people from mass-downloading!
Reply #65 Top
whoops me is in the wrong thread pardon me...
hehe
Reply #66 Top
#63  by Developer wombat_1 - 7/29/2003 7:42:41 AM
No free love? I think someone woke up on the wrong side of the outback. I thought you guys were supposed to be whimsical and sing songs like tie me kangaroo down sport, what a grouch.



OK .... and we all wear slouch hats, have Kangaroos hopping down the main streets of our cities, can ride stock horses and drink gallons of Fosters!
Butter me on both sides and call me a stereotype!
The things most people get out of 'free love' is pregnant or a nasty rash...or both

 

Haha...cough, cackle, chortle....

Oi, Digger, Blue, chuck us a nuvver tinnie will yas? Me throat's as dry as a dead dingo's donger. Crikey [last one is for the Yanks...they like that one]...

G'day, cans oi calls ya 'Stereo' fer short?...

Reply #67 Top
personally, i subsribe to both OD and to this site.

since i change skins very rarely raising the cost of the OD subscription makes no sense to me. given how little i download it does raise the question why have i subscribed to this site? the answer is simple this is my "home", it is a very important place to me, so i want to do what i can to support it.

to repeat, the proposed 250 meg cap is a *lifetime* cap! given this site has only been running for what 2 years now?, this doesnt sound to bad. but, looking forward in time to when this site has been running for 10 years, are lifetime caps going to be more of a problem than a solution?

it seems that when most people see this magic number they automatically think it is a limit for 1 year. so, is a 1 year limit (with a much smaller number) the better solution? i am presuming (perhaps wrongly) that this isnt much harder to do. and from a presenting to the users point of view it sounds a lot better. after all, say the "average" OD subscriber downloads 50 meg a year, this cap means they are locked out after 5 years



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Reply #68 Top
somewhere the very good point about page sizes has been made. when visiting this site from my home machine (56k modem) if i have other things downloading in parallel, this page normally fails to load! even when it is loading on its own, loading it can be a hit and miss affair.

now, i am aware the site server has a lot to do with this. however, based on watching this site load graphic by graphic, it *feels* very bulky. this might just be a mistaken perception, but what i really want is a very streamlined view of things.

take the message board. to read it and post, i really do not need to load the latest additions, top author, skin sections, etc every time i load a page with some messages on it. i know most of the graphics are supposed to be cached locally, but the bottom line is loading the full page is a LOT slower than loading the messages only page in the skin browser IE control, and uses more modem activity (presumably this equals bandwidth).

so, based on this practical experience, it suggests there is room for faster pages (which hopefully mean less bandwidth) by having a very minimal mode available.

of course, given the statistic (its on a different page, so quoting from memory) that 25% of the bandwidth is used by 2% of the users, this seems unlikely to be the main issue. however, is it an issue that is worth looking into in parallel?



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Reply #69 Top
Hmm I got a idea... how about force-lowering all pictures on site to 256 colors? Maybe also insert a banner about unregistered users not having a full color ( tru colors ) pictures?

It could mean some bandwidth savings from unregistered users?

I still think 10 mb per month limit on non registered is good idea, it will still block "hit and run" massive downloading, someone is right on just creating new account and downloading more, and 250 mb is quite large even as lifetime limit. While 10 mb per month limit still don't prevent the new account creation and download more, the user would have to make more accounts to download same as 250 mb.