Ship Role Question

from GalCiv3 Forums

So I use alot of Carriers.

 

And I've never come up agaisnt any race using alot of carriers before. Now I've installed the AI tweaks mod, I am coming up agaisnt carriers.

 

It's funny when two carrier fleets meet. The Assault fighters fly past each other and destroy each others  carriers.

Then they fight... but no carrier to hold them.

Ive not used Guardians much.

But looking at ship roles it seems I need some Guardians

 

If I put say, 3 Assault Fighter modules and 3 Guardian modules on each of my carriers. That'll mean half my fighters will stay back and protect my carriers right?:P

Otherwise I could design a Frigate class ship to pad the fleets with a Guardian role?

Recommendations please!

 

Up to turn 180 on Godlike. I smashed the Snathi in a war but now Drengin just declared, they are 24,000 on score and I'm just 12,000.

Thought my fleets would rip them apart as I have advantages in Kinetic and Logistics, but seems not as I dont have any guardian role ships to protect my carriers hah.

 

Guardian modules on my carriers could be perfect solutioon ... right?

 

30,594 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Escort Frigates will work better than Guardians if you are using AI Tweaks.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Escort frigates you think?

That because escorts get taregtted before everything else?

Could go for Guardian Frigates. 

Would make Logical sense to go for guardian fighters to defend the Battlestars..

...Drengin have 6 huge hull carriers in one fleet !

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

i have specialised in kinetic tech too

 

is why im thinking guardian modules on carriers would be better defence vs other carriers

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I would not split the carrier fighters.... make them ALL guardians, that way, they will put all effort to protect your carriers when it counts, and later on eventually attack enemy carriers. Because what is the hurry to attack enemy carriers? Ok if their fleet is more powerful, then you might want to target their carriers first, and do whatever damage you can before losing.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

So making carriers capitals like in the real world is a bad idea.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Take note, that in AI Tweaks, the ship roles and targetting behaviors are changed. I wrote the following post about them a while ago:

Quoting zuPloed, reply 64

I have been studying the battle behaviour changes a bit, here are my thoughts (basicly theory crafting so far):

What I think is the intention behind the ship roles:

Capital Ships:
- achieve strategic objectives, e.g. destroy starbases to deny movement range, destroy capitals to keep starbases alive, destroy supports to do maximum damage to enemy fleet combat capabilities (e.g. no carriers which have replenishing fighters)
-> implications: good balance between fire power and defense needed (life just long enough to fullfill strategic objective)
-> targets have high hp; therefore lower importance of attack speed and combination of multiple weapons
-> large or huge hulls

Escort Ships:
- protect capital ships by shielding them against everything but other capitals, guardians and starbases
- shield assaults against capitals, assaults and escorts
- can stay with supports but not shield them effectively
-> more focus on defene than on offence
-> focus on attack speed and different weapons in order to minimize overkill against small targets

Assault Ships:
- go after sqishy targets, i.e. support ships and starbases before fighting the capital/escort group
- I am not entirely sure about this, the target priorities are odd to me (see later)
- shields interceptors against everything but supports

Guardian Ships:
- artillery ships/ capital ship hunters. Prevent enemy from fullfilling strategic objective
-> low defense, high offense
-> balance between high attack speed and high first strike damage depending on enemy composition and role (huge capital ships -> high first strike damage; medium assault ships -> reduce overkill)

Interceptor Ships:
- they have movement type attacker, will have to test if they actually do escort assaults
- escort assault ships or protect starbase/ support ship
- do not shield assault ships but assaults shield them
-> preference for offense over defense

Discussion:

Capital Ships:
- I love the concept of capital ships essentially being a strategic weapon.
- I was wondering about why they shouldn't beeline for supports after starbase and other capitals, but this is reasonable due to guardians role as capital hunters

Guardian Ships:
- again, I like the concept of them being capship hunters and them focussing on removing the enemy high damage ships
- I would consider changing the starbase upgrades to contain guardians instead of interceptors and possibly assaults too

Escort Ships:
- basicly fine in its role I think

Assault Ships:
- I like the idea of having some ships going after the soft targets and therefore being different from capitals
- they would be the best candidate for plantary defenses due to attacking transports first and possibly preventing an invasion that way
- I am wondering why the attack order is not: Starbase, Support, Guardian, Escort, Capships, Assault, Interceptor, Upgrading
-> Guardians as artillery ships would make sense as higher priority target; also the Assault/Interceptor squadron would stay near the Support/Guardian group until it is cleared out that way except if there is a starbase (maybe even reduce starbase priority behind escorts or even capitals, since you would use capitals, if removing a starbase was a priority)

Interceptor Ships:
- the main problem I see here is the lack of specialization. They are a little bit of escorts to Assaults but don't shield them, they are a little bit of Assault/Interceptor hunters, but will follow their own asaults while available...
- I don't think they have to escort Supports, since you can use Guardians for exactly the same purpose
- if the starbases use guardians instead of interceptors, they don't have to escort those either
- what I would consider is making them escorts to Assaults, meaning they will shield assaults and prioritize the Assaults objectives if those are destroyed, I am nt entirely sure how though
- the alternative would be dissolving the Assault/Interceptor group and have Interceptors hunt assaults all over the battle :/ not sure about this yet... maybe try to add another ship role...

Spacing:
- I dont like the spacing so much, it means you divide your fleet. Letting the enemy fight 3 small instead of one big fleet is just never a good idea.
- would put the Capital/Escort fleet in front of the Assault/Interceptor squad in order to to have the latter bypass the enemy fleet when it is allready occupied with the other Capital/Escort fleet
- I like the starbases being in the thick of battle

--------------

Will leave it at that for now, I am sure I forgot something^^
End of zuPloed's quote

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Ok,

So sometimes I make a carrier Capital if it has decent weapons, sometimes I make it support role.

Should I always use support role?

 

From your above post I see a mixture balanced fleet is definitely the best solution.

 

I'm going to start building a selection of decent well-armoured Escorts and also start putting at least 1 Guardian module always on each of my carriers as well as having Assault Fighters.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I have taken another look at the BattleBehaviorDefs in AI Tweaks:

Nothing shields supports. Assault ships will allways rush supports and focus them down. So you can either arm your supports, or make your carriers another class.

If you assign a different class to carriers, I would suggest using guardian. And combine capitals and escorts to shield them, since all other ship roles will attack either escorts or capitals, before they attack guardians.

That is how I would do it because of the spacing argument: If you have all types present, you will have 3 groups: Assaults+Interceptors, Escorts+Capitals and Supports+Guardians. Splitting your fleet like that is not necessarily a good idea (you will have unused firepower in the back until your main fleet is destroyed).

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Hey guys

Thanks for the advice and tips!

 

I designed some specific Guardians(Medium hulls) with fast firing Kinetic weapons and some Escorts(Large hulls) with high defences.

The enemy assault fighters from Drengin carriers go straight for the Escorts and the Guardian frigates stay beside my Capital Carriers and protect them.

While this battle with enemy fighters is going on around my fleet (Carriers, Escorts, Guardians)

 

My assault fighters are destroying the enemy fleet.

I did test Guardian fighters, and they do engage the Assault fighters first but they keep flying fast towards enemy.

So in conclusion Guardian fighters are not the best for sticking around protecting your Capitals.

Guardian Frigates are the shizzle.

Here's a shot of my lovely mixed fleet

http://oi68.tinypic.com/35auomp.jpg

4 Battlestars (Huge Hull Carriers)

3 Assaultstars (Large Hull Escorts)

2 Gunstars (Medium Hull Guardians)