"All that temptation and yearning to be a part of Deviantart has rushed out of me like diarrhea. Thanks Jark, you helped me dodge a bullet on that one. I'm going to bed.



by bakerstreet - 9/19/2002 5:26:01 AM "


Baker...you are friggin awesome! I don't see eye to eye with everything you have said in the past, but we seem to think a lot alike (my opinion...might offend ye )

you know...a site as big as devart infers it has a bit of jink, right? i wonder if britny could use a little extra spending cash by sikkin' her lawyers on the site owner(s) for copyright violation just to shut this conversation up?

hmm...wonder what her email addy is...

/me goes to sign up at the fan club...pauses to shoot himself in the left eyeball, and turns around with the temptation and yearning rushing out of him like diarrhea...

Jark: I find it really, really hard to believe that you argued this for hours under the impression that we were all talking about making something for personal use. We all have stuff that could be termed 'derivative' that we use and don't distribute. I'm using an anime wallpaper right now that I took from a screenshot. I would never distribute it, though. Did you really think I was saying that it wasn't physically possible for someone to make a derivative work? That "can't, can't, can't!" meant that the hand of God would stop you or something?

No, I was talking about making *and* uploading; I had been since my first post on this thread, and it was obvious to anyone.

Someone comes on this string and says "Hey, can I legally make a DesktopX object with an image I don't own?" and you argue that they can for three hours without bothering to say, "Oh, but you can't upload it"? AM I the only one that sounds completely insane to?

If I had the energy to argue I'd accuse you of finding a loophole in your argument so that you could back out without admitting you were wrong, but that would take hours too, and I am tired, pissy, and honestly beyond caring. I have thrown as much time down this particular as I can stand.

I'll just say it one more time on the way out: You can't have a database full of 'illegally derivative' , (somehow non-copyrighted) work, and expect to get by saying you are doing "all you can". Stop being 'fair' and delete it. If there is a legit Britney pic on your site, and you delete it, the photographer will happily cough up a contract or a model release to prove his ownership. The same could be said for any stolen subject. If the subject is a commercial enterprise of any sort, a commercial artist will have *some* shred of evidence he had the right to do it. Guilty until proven innocent for this kind of thing would harm no one. If you end up being wrong, they can reupload it, and if you were right *everyone* concerned benefits.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek. Cant we stop this? Different point of view, different sites. Copyright is there to protect the maker from unauthorized distribution. Why? Because of potential loss of income. That's the basic thought. Thats why the law was made in the first place.

Oh no, this has been going on like forever. It comes up here, at DevArt and at many other sites, on a regular basis.

But a chit chat kind of game won't help. That only enforces anger. Take the subject in the middle and try to look at it from different sides. Then you might come closer to a common view. Any conversation like this won't help I am afraid.
And in conversations to what is art, one is totally lost. I have some thoughts about it, and another person may have the opposite meaning. I did learn that again on this site

Lecrayon, I agree that it's a tough subject to agree on, but I maintain, as I mentioned earlier, that few if any art galleries or museums, who of course appreciate art more than the average bear, are going to allow any random person to hang their stuff on their walls. It might all be "art", but that label alone doesn't make it worthy of display.

Mark, I agree with you the name of the site is a little bit unfortunate
It's better to replace "art" by "collections" or something. But having said that I am sure people will start calling me names My experience is, that if you have criticism on any site, you will not be heard, or mostly not, you will get accused of all kinds of things And frankly, it is up to the people that run the site to stick to the policy they want to operate on.

lecrayon - i'm afraid i still have to disagree. copyright really isn't all just about money. that's one of the side effects, but the basic impetus is to maintain who deserves credit of creation.

also, it's not productive to always try to get people to compromise or find some sort of middle ground on issues. sometimes people are just wrong. don't worry about trying to mediate or bring them together - jark and baker are both big boys, and they both like a good strenuous discussion some things just might get hammered out here as well.. you never know.

i have a good deal of respect for the both of them, and i'm interested to hear how this goes. baker, for one, reminds me always of thoreau. for jark's part, i have to say a few weeks ago i had some ideas of my own about devart, and i emailed him about them. he didn't blow me off, he took me seriously and talked them over.

Hey all this copyright mess is like any political debate its however the "head power" interprets the documents not how we do, we can convice that "head power" the change there mind but its up to them how it is interpretted, art is art, its more of respect to not rip off other ppls works, we are influenced by the art around us. So if we want to get into a dispute as wether that piece of art was taken from another piece of art then go for it u won't get anywhere.

So if u guys really want to know about the interpritation of this law, mail someone who made the law, they will know what it means.

Just a friendly suggest from a simple passer by

That's ok Migellito, I respect your opinion About being getting heard, that's much more easy if you are part of the people that run a site, rather than just someone who bypasses and starts wondering about things.

To balance my rabid criticism, I wanted to give credit to Devart for washing out one section a lot of people were griping about:

http://forum.deviantart.com/683721

I applaud the effort it must have taken to weed out ~3000 wallpapers, and with diligence I am sure it won't get be so abused ever again. I wouldn't think it fair to let this string wind off the page without tipping my hat; the right thing has been done in this case. Props to all involved.

Baker...the problem was more than a year of 'unsupervised' uploads which allowed all sorts of crud and copyright issues to be upped.

Good to see they've caught up...

The wall section here was in similar straits...until we 'lost' a hundred or two walls about 12 months ago or so.....[damn I can be clumsy at times]...