Champions role in FH?

from Elemental Forums

It has bugged me for quite some time-

What is the role of champions in Fallen Enchantress?

Early game, you need your whole army and sovereign in order to beat the monsters around you. If you group the champions with the sovereign, you reduce the xp the sovereign gains. If you try to group them with another army, it will most likely be squashed, as you already cleared all the easy camps.

This means that until the later stages, when you have multiple strong armies roaming around, champions are quite useless.

I was wondering what you guys are doing with them?

19,929 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree completely.  I can't believe this isn't mentioned more often.  I realize they are trying to remove the "stack of doom" but it's a single player game!  Who is my stack of doom hurting?  Besides with FH the developer has total control over the pace of new heroes and the max level/power.  The endgame power of a hero could be on par with a traditional army unit. 

Finally, hidden mechanics are a bad idea.  New players will not even realize they are slowing the growth of their heroes by stacking them. 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting klaxton499, reply 1
New players will not even realize they are slowing the growth of their heroes by stacking them.
End of klaxton499's quote

They could make this obvious in the end of battle screen somehow.

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top
Quoting Frogboy,

The Legendary Heroes

In Fallen Enchantress, your ability to acquire champions (which led to your victory or defeat often times) was dependent on how the map placed the champions at the start of the game. You literally would find them camping out in the wilds.  This had the tendency of making victory less about how powerful your civilization was and more about amassing champions. In fact, some players were able to win the game without ever building cities.
 

End of Frogboy's quote

(Taken from journal)

This is the reason I posted this- I literally soloed the game with my sovereign, but suddenly Frogboy comes and say that they are useful, so I started wondering- what the hell is he talking about?

Sure, the normal game is easy enough (playing on expert, which reveal all kind of design problems). But amassing champions? Losing games because you didn't find enough of them? The only champions I have ever recruited were either sacrificial lambs for their magic, or they returned their cost with +gold, +research and such.

 

The problem with champion stacking and turning into a stack of doom is that they thought it causes balance problems. In truth, they were dead wrong, as one strong caster can wipe out entire armies in a couple of turns.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raledon, reply 3


Frogboy

The Legendary Heroes

In Fallen Enchantress, your ability to acquire champions (which led to your victory or defeat often times) was dependent on how the map placed the champions at the start of the game. You literally would find them camping out in the wilds.  This had the tendency of making victory less about how powerful your civilization was and more about amassing champions. In fact, some players were able to win the game without ever building cities.
 


(Taken from journal)

This is the reason I posted this- I literally soloed the game with my sovereign, but suddenly Frogboy comes and say that they are useful, so I started wondering- what the hell is he talking about?

Sure, the normal game is easy enough (playing on expert, which reveal all kind of design problems). But amassing champions? Losing games because you didn't find enough of them? The only champions I have ever recruited were either sacrificial lambs for their magic, or they returned their cost with +gold, +research and such.
 

The problem with champion stacking and turning into a stack of doom is that they thought it causes balance problems. In truth, they were dead wrong, as one strong caster can wipe out entire armies in a couple of turns.
End of Raledon's quote

My experience is much closer to Frogboy's than it is to yours.  The games where I did best were the ones where I picked up as many heroes as possible and distributed them around with decent armies racking up experience.  The games where I struggled were ones where I only had my sov and the starting champion.

One of the beautiful things about FE (and WoM) is that you can play it any number of ways and still succeed.  However, as you experienced, being able to win any way you play kinda takes the fun out of winning.  Not sure what they can do about that.  Nor what they can do out of players min-maxing the game to death.  As Frogboy pointed out, kiting with potions is a winning strategy, but not something you'd want the AI to do to you.

I haven't had much chance to play with LH (just enough to make sure it works -- and learn that I should not have started on Hard), but it seems obvious to me that there's going to need to be a lot of balancing.  If people are feeling that heroes are too weak in LH, it's probably a good thing as they removed a lot of the good loot to make heroes weaker (and leveling more important) in FE.

I for one am sick of kitting my champions out with rusty swords and discarded helmets.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Can someone tell me how exactly you kite with potions? Never done it, don't get it (not that I'll start doing it, just curious.)

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I assume he just means buying loads of potions off the shop and use them. The idea being, if the unit deals 5 damage and you heal for 8 out of 20, you should be able to eventually kill it, with enough potions.

 

Boatman, I understand the idea of roaming with champions in armies. The issue is that only works later in the game when your units worth a damn. An alternative is that you player on a lower difficulty than I did (quite possible), thus the weak units coupled with the champions could still beat the monsters around them.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

How is using a champion in the Sovs army reducing the Sovs xp?  I thought threw out that mechanic with LH.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I believe that LH changed it so that the XP isn't split anymore...

Personally in FE I would just have armies with two Champs, one caster and one melee. XP was split two ways, but it seemed like a good combo.

With the LH change methinks I'll run around with more champs...

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Gaunathor, reply 9


Quoting Lord Xia, reply 7I thought threw out that mechanic with LH.

No, they added it back in.
End of Gaunathor's quote

 

I guess I am corrected and need to split my heroes again.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Just from these 4 posts we see how problematic this system has become.

 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I to solo on Challening level I never make troops and win on conquest. I do not see the use or need for heros as the game is now. I only see

them as , things to loot and ravage there spells from. I love the thought that one I day will need them to team and fight with but thay take to

much exp away so there powers are better useded on my buffed Avator. To be honest I dont see why people make troops, I guess it must be for

fun though some builds are hard to solo with maybe i'll try a hero with those builds. I hope thay take share exp with hero out the game. So I can

use them instead of STRIPPING them.