[bug 1.02] AI instantly completes queued buildings

from Elemental Forums

The insta-building bug is alive and well in 1.02.  In fact you can watch it happen right before your own eyes. 

Although claimed to be fixed with 1.01 - "Fixed bug where sometimes the AI would force complete all of its construciton projects on the first turn after loading a game because it was using stale city defender power ratings (these are now recalced and cached while the game is loading)" the behaviour is still present.

Come on guys, fix it - the whole saga is doing your credibility the world of harm.

Also by looking at the research on the Foreign Relations screen Markinn manages to do 4 research (from 203 to 207) even though his only city produces a mere 0.7 research points.  He has nothing to offer in trades, I know because I set up treaties this turn and he went from -250 odd gildar up to about -190 curtesy of my treaty making and he had no resources or tech points to offer.

If you look at the save or the screenshots you will see that on turn 70/71 the AI gets 110 turns of construction for free.  It is a novice difficulty game.  So that means instead of doing 50% production it jumps to 125% = greater production than challenging level, approaching hard.  The research speed is about 5 times what it should be so instead of going at 50% of the player the AI is proceeding at 250%, all with a single city.  This is not non-cheating AI and you are selling the player up the river by telling them that they receive bonuses to research and production compared to the AI on this the easiest level.  God knows what happens on the higher levels of difficulty, at least this and maybe far worse.

If you load the save you can see it happen for yourself before your own eyes.  (The game uses parrottmath's snaking and bridge mod's but they are not involved in this.)

 

End of season 70

 

 

Beginning of season 71

 

 

 

And the save game.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14105530/c70b.zip

My sovereign is right beside the city when this happens...

 

 


 

258,519 views 29 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Thanks for posting this, my feeling was it was still happening too but I haven't been playing much recently.

Stardock are really starting to stumble with FE, these bugs needed to be fixed well before release. It feels to me like there isn't a dedicated testing team at Stardock, or if there is they just play the game superficially and don't actually analyse in depth what is going on.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mistwraithe, reply 1
Stardock are really starting to stumble with FE, these bugs needed to be fixed well before release. It feels to me like there isn't a dedicated testing team at Stardock, or if there is they just play the game superficially and don't actually analyse in depth what is going on.
End of Mistwraithe's quote

I wouldn't speculate on this too much. This game has a lot to analyze and there are a lot of different things that may be causing this bug. Good catch.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top



Also by looking at the research on the Foreign Relations screen Markinn manages to do 4 research (from 203 to 207) even though his only city produces a mere 0.7 research points.  He has nothing to offer in trades, I know because I set up treaties this turn and he went from -250 odd gildar up to about -190 curtesy of my treaty making and he had no resources or tech points to offer
End of quote

 

Technically, he could have a champion with the loremaster trait generating research.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Come on guys, fix it - the whole saga is doing your credibility the world of harm.
End of quote

I think you'd likely get more support without the drama.  I play the game all the time and I've never run into it. I don't doubt you have. But saying it's ruining Stardock's credibility or that FE is stumbling on it sounds like something out of Star Trek conventions "Man, remember in episode 67. In the first scene Spock's hair is all messed up and in the second it's combed. Gawd, I hope someone got fired for that!"

I'd rather they work on balance. That's something lots of people are complaining about.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Over a hundred turns of construction, instantly, for free.  Not a balance issue... nothing to see here.  XD  

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting feelotraveller, reply 6
Over a hundred turns of construction, instantly, for free.  Not a balance issue... nothing to see here.   

 
End of feelotraveller's quote

 

You're being more than a bit unfair to his point, since he was saying that it isn't a problem for everybody, and that serious balance issues do affect us all.  He also agreed some people are experiencing this.  I certainly hope it gets solved as well, but ridiculing someone whose very civil opinion differs from your own reflects less on them than it does on you. :)

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

The insta-building bug is alive and well in 1.02.  In fact you can watch it happen right before your own eyes. 
                                                                             o   o   o
If you look at the save or the screenshots you will see that on turn 70/71 the AI gets 110 turns of construction for free.  It is a novice difficulty game.  So that means instead of doing 50% production it jumps to 125% = greater production than challenging level, approaching hard.  The research speed is about 5 times what it should be so instead of going at 50% of the player the AI is proceeding at 250%, all with a single city.  This is not non-cheating AI and you are selling the player up the river by telling them that they receive bonuses to research and production compared to the AI on this the easiest level.  God knows what happens on the higher levels of difficulty   . . .
                                                                             o   o   o
End of quote

I think this is a very worthwhile observation, and one that deserved it's own thread.  Thanks for catching this bug, Feelotraveller, and for documenting it!  [ I have reduced the volume of your Original Post in the above excerpted quotation; and I added Bolding, for the purpose of emphasizing the point I wanted to address. ]

I remain a Partisan on behalf of the Newbie purchasers of Fallen Enchantress, and those folks who are looking for a great 4X game, that is fun to play, even if you are not one of the serious Hard-core players (which form a majority of the folks on these forums).  I want to see FE be as successful as it possibly can be; so that more games like it will be created. 

Stardock has needed all along to attract the hardcore players who are always looking for a Challenge; and I think they have largely succeeded in that regard.  Hooray!  (Just to review the bidding, I am  NOT a particularly hardcore player, but I Beta-tested FE since late February; and I LOVE THIS GAME.)  However, there is a world of other potential customers out there, who don't want to buy a game with a harsh learning curve, when it is coupled with AI cheating, even on the Novice and (default) Easy levels, and a somewhat imposing and (relatively) un-friendly User-Interface.  (I also think this game was released a couple months in advance of what was desirable for a well-polished game, but that is a subject for another Discussion Thread.)

Bottomline: you make a good point, Feelotraveller; and I sure hope that Stardock is seriously listening, when matters like this are brought up ...       :thumbsup:       

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Mmmm, I would categorise this as a fairly serious bug.

My suspicion is that it happens moderately often but isn't reported much because it isn't easy to observe.

I haven't observed it directly in 1.02 but I have felt it was probably happening when I have found AI cities with way more buildings in them than I could possibly achieve in my capital. I quite often only play 5-10 turns in a session so I possibly reload more than most.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm thinking Stardock deserves a break from the slagging about support and fixing bugs. FE is a great concept vvith several bugs, but I've alvvays kind of considered Stardock to be a garage operation, smaller than most game developers. FE is possibly their most complicated game to date, so there are going to be issues. I bought Elemental vvith high hopes and found it lacking, so I got the FE betas, but never played them much because of the crashes. Novv I'm getting into this game and I'm pretty impressed. I'm sure fixes are coming. VVhat's needed is posts describing issues like this one, vvith supporting posts, so the devs are avvare.

 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting hareamao, reply 11
Question: How did you pan the camera?
End of hareamao's quote

Press and hold middle mouse button then move the mouse.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Thank you! It works. However, why does it auto rotate back to 45 degree view once I release the wheel button?

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting hareamao, reply 13
Thank you! It works. However, why does it auto rotate back to 45 degree view once I release the wheel button?
End of hareamao's quote

There is a setting in the options that you have to unselect... under advanced called snap back when rotating.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Mmrnmhrm, reply 5
But saying it's ruining Stardock's credibility or that FE is stumbling on it sounds like something out of Star Trek conventions...
End of Mmrnmhrm's quote

I disagree.  I feel the same as the OP -- this is a bug that has long-since been identified and needs to be fixed.  The AI getting 110 turns of free production is the kind of thing that should be addressed promptly.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting rlane48, reply 17

Quoting Mmrnmhrm, reply 5 But saying it's ruining Stardock's credibility or that FE is stumbling on it sounds like something out of Star Trek conventions...

I disagree.  I feel the same as the OP -- this is a bug that has long-since been identified and needs to be fixed.  The AI getting 110 turns of free production is the kind of thing that should be addressed promptly.
End of rlane48's quote

 

Ah, cut down on the hyperbole mate. It is 110 turns of production but why? Because the city only generates 5 production per turn. If that city was a normal city generating 30-40 production per turn, then it would only be ~15 turns of production.

Of course it needs to be fixed, but the "number of turns of free production AI gets" is really an irrelevant number.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting rlane48, reply 17

Quoting Mmrnmhrm, reply 5 But saying it's ruining Stardock's credibility or that FE is stumbling on it sounds like something out of Star Trek conventions...

I disagree.  I feel the same as the OP -- this is a bug that has long-since been identified and needs to be fixed.  The AI getting 110 turns of free production is the kind of thing that should be addressed promptly.
End of rlane48's quote


I think the point is that hyperventilating on the forums isn't going to get the problem solved faster.  What gets bugs fixed is posts like the OP that have useful information and save-games that the Devs at Stardock can use to replicate the problem.  In that regard, the contrast between the usefulness of the OP and the worthlessness of the first reply is particularly glaring.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting stax77, reply 18

Quoting rlane48, reply 17
Quoting Mmrnmhrm, reply 5 But saying it's ruining Stardock's credibility or that FE is stumbling on it sounds like something out of Star Trek conventions...

I disagree.  I feel the same as the OP -- this is a bug that has long-since been identified and needs to be fixed.  The AI getting 110 turns of free production is the kind of thing that should be addressed promptly.

 

Ah, cut down on the hyperbole mate. It is 110 turns of production but why? Because the city only generates 5 production per turn. If that city was a normal city generating 30-40 production per turn, then it would only be ~15 turns of production.

Of course it needs to be fixed, but the "number of turns of free production AI gets" is really an irrelevant number.
End of stax77's quote

It's relevant in context of the original post.  Regardless of the turn numbers, it is a break that I feel should be rectified.  I am not suggesting that SD isn't working towards that end, and I'm certainly not jumping up and down, calling SD a bunch of a**holes.

What I'm also not doing, unlike Mmrnmhrm above, is attempting to invalidate how the OP feels about this issue.  If the OP feels SD's credibility is waning  because of this problem, then that's how he feels.  And kudos to him saying so in a rational, well thought-out post on the matter.

 

 

 

Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top

Yup this bug STILL exists.  I read this today at work, and when I got home I loaded one of my games and moved an army to an enemy city, they were building Archers.  Saved the game, reloaded it, ended the turn and it was instantly built.  Then they started building Defenders, so I saved again and reloaded, instantly built.  Then they started another defenders, and hit end turn and it was constructing normally.  Saved and reloaded, auto finished building.  Would also explain how on my large map over the course of playing it for a week after work, all the AI has a faction power of 456, but I only am at 100, wish I had an instant finishing bug to boost me.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

 

  The previous issue was auto-completing improvements on game reload.  FWIW this is a different issue.  But I'm checking it out, we will get it fixed.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

@Derek, I tested this the other day -- the AI had a build queue of UNIT/IMPROVEMENT/IMPROVEMENT, and when the unit got completed, so did the subsequent items.

Thanks for looking into it.

 

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Derek, reply 22
 

  The previous issue was auto-completing improvements on game reload.  FWIW this is a different issue.  But I'm checking it out, we will get it fixed.
End of Derek's quote

 

Thank you for looking into it.  Apologies if I have conflated two bugs but from the end user experience they are (i.e. look) the same. 

As can be seen from the tone of my intial post I am quite frustrated with the state of FE.  Don't get me wrong there has been a load of good work done, monsters, loot, city buildings, faction differenciation, to name just a few, are all vastly improved and quite a lot of fun.  But to be finding bugs like this in a game which has gone gold is not what I (maybe quite naively) expect.  I had 3 proper games in 1.00, 2 of which I could not face after encountering an insta-building bug (either this one or that other one...) and one which ended when I ran into the non-expendable pioneers building 30 population cities as fast as they could get to location, another bug still alive and well.  Now my first proper game in 1.02 comes to this.  In all cases the bugs made a gross distortion of balance/play of the game.  This is not the gaming experience I thought I was purchasing way back when.  (And even though that is ancient history the scars remain...)

 

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

 

It has been tracked down and fixed.  The fix will be be in patch 1.1.

 

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Derek, reply 25
 

It has been tracked down and fixed.  The fix will be be in patch 1.1.

 
End of Derek's quote

Yay! :thumbsup: And there was much rejoicing!