Looking for Experienced player feedback

Hi

I am new to the entire Sins franchise and just started playing with Rebellion.  I have started playing a 2 v 2 map against Ai as I want to get better before I play Humans :)

I have uploaded the first 4 parts of the battle and am pausing until I get some feedback on how best to proceed with my battle.  I have a few issues with pirates and paying them off and am looking for some experts to offer some tactical advice.

My videos can be found here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XO81KMKwOHk&feature=player_detailpage#t=419s (this links skips the intro)

They are about 12 minutes each and will give you a good idea of where I am with the game.   

Clearly I am asking a big favour here so let me say a big thank you to anyone that actually watches them and offers some advice, oh and sorry for sounding bunged up on the vids but I have a stinking cold :(

The end of video 4 has some questions that I have regarding pirates, I would post it here but it's a waste of time as it asks if I am paying them off correctly.

Cheers.

8,954 views 8 replies
Reply #1 Top

Pirates are basicly always off in multiplayer. so dont worry about em.

 

My internet at this point sucks, so i am unable to watch the vid... but i can still give advice.

What you instead might want to do is watch some replays of some pro games, and see if you can copy what they do.

 

Heres a short 3v3 replay, ~38 min long, and watch what I, Radioactive, and Seleucia do. we dont do things perfectly, but it should give a good idea of how ones build should... exist.  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/36550973/3v3%20razors%20edge.recordreb

Reply #2 Top

First piece of advice: Don't bother with Gauss Rail Gun, especially not as the first ability. It is an antimatter hog, and is not very effective thanks to Shield Mitigation. Instead, Adaptive Forcefield is where you should put your points. It blocks a decent amount of damage, uses little antimatter and at level 3 has almost 100% up time.

Second piece of advice: Don't build the Kol first. Its not that great of a ship, especially early game. The Sova has more DPS [Thanks to Strike Craft], and the Akkan will allow you to Colonise and not waste supply building a colony frigate. If you level the Akkan up to 6, it also becomes godly. Armistice will allow you to retreat from any battle at any time you wish, avoid Argonev BRBs if you use them fast enough and basically make sure your capital ships will live to fight another day. In addition the Ion Bolt Ability on the Akkan is amazing, especially in long fights, as with 2 or more Akkans you can basically permanently disable an enemy Capital ship for an entire fight. Targetting uplink is also alright, but I'm not sure if I'd count it as amazing. Its where you should put your points after the first level of Colonise when Ion bolt and Armistice are unavailable. The Corsev I believe is also decent thanks to its passive, and its Boarding Party ability will allow you to steal those neutral ships to help build your fleet early game. I don't see any abilities the Corsev has other than its passive being that great late game however.

Third piece of advice: Not sure if others will agree with me on this, but get the hull upgrades before the Laser ones. Lasers only affect some of your ships, and the slight increase to DPS is nothing compared to the large increase in hull and regeneration that effects all your ships and structures.

Fourth piece of Advice: Planetary defences against the AI IMO are best done with 2 Repair Platforms, 2 Hangar Defences and as many Gauss Cannons as you can put down near each. Bunch them up a lot too - AI ships will always go fight your defences before bombing, unless they send in Siege Frigates - which you should order your hangar defences to take care of ASAP whist your Gauss engage frigates, cruisers and Capital ships. Make sure you have at least 1 fighter squadron to take on enemy bombers. The Repair Platforms will allow such a defence to hold out against a mid sized enemy fleet indefinitely if you keep replacing anything that dies. Its relatively cheap, and very effective. You could make a more impassable defence with Starbases and Hangar defences, however that is far more expensive, and is taking money away from your fleet.

Fifth piece of Advice: Try to expand faster. Generally 1 Capital Ship and 8 Light Frigates will take on any unowned planetary defence - even Terran or Desert - with the Capital Ship still alive. Thanks to this, you only need a small fleet to go around and colonise half the system in a short time. Against human players this can be risky, as the money you put into upgrading your planets they'll put into making a nasty fleet, however the AI generally won't rush you until mid game, so you can just expand, get a good economy, then win a war of attrition against them.

Sixth piece of Advice: Get a Titan sooner. Rather than getting to tier 7 and having not even researched the first level of the Titan, try to get one out sooner. They level around half the speed that Capital Ships do, but they are extremely effective in a battlefield, and the Ankylon in particular is brilliant with a fleet. Get its shield ability and Disruption Matrix for the most part. They are quite effective AOE abilities. The shield, at level 4, can protect your fleet from 87% or so of incoming damage. Disruption matrix stops your enemies from casting abilities whilst also damaging them.

Answer to question regarding Black Market Offer prices: I do not believe it works against AI. The AI will buy and sell metal and crystal, but it seems to do it directly to the Black market, bypassing you entirely - even if your price is lower. How I believe it works in multiplayer is that you can put up those resources, and when purchasing metal or crystal, instead of it showing the black market price the game will show your price [If you are the lowest price], and any player who purchases your resources will have the credits they spent doing so delivered to you rather than to the black market. In Single Player, don't bother with it. I don't think it works.

Seventh piece of Advice: When engaging large enemy forces, try to keep your ships in formation behind your Capital ship until the fight has begun. Hopefully the AI will auto-target your capital ship - which is far more durable than your frigates, especially with Adaptive Forcefield. This means that your frigates won't just die instantly, and you won't lose their DPS within the first 20 seconds of a fight. Forcing your fleet to jump in formation can help with this, as capital ships are slow and will generally be left behind, whilst the rest of your fleet is slaughtered without them. If your capital ship gets too damaged [I generally wait for the "Has been heavily damaged" message in small scale fights like the one at 13:50 in your second video], jump it out of the gravity well. If you know its not going to make it, have any ship that is about to die fly straight past the enemy. Why? Their ships will all turn around to face the target that is now behind them. In doing so, they open themselves up to being vulnerable once your dying ship is dead. They will have to turn around a full 180 degrees if you've done this right to re-engage the rest of your fleet. Weapons on the back or sides of ships generally [Read: Sova and Akkan have more effective Side weapons. Not sure about other ships. Check which side it turns to to shoot from.] are weaker than the front weapons, so you will deal superior DPS to the enemy whilst they are turning, whilst taking less damage yourself.

Eight piece of Advice: Three ships you want ASAP in a TEC fleet are the Dunov, the Hoshiko and the Cielo. The Cielo can actually wait, but its good to have. I wouldn't get the Dunov as your first Capital ship - see my second piece of advice for this - but it is a good mid game capital ship. It has all round great abilities. Shield Restore is the one you will use the most though, probably followed by EMP. Shield Restore will keep your ships in the fight far longer than they would be usually by restoring their shields if they drop too low. The Hoshiko is a must have. It will repair the ships in your fleet, allowing them to last far longer in any fight. Your heavy cruisers that were dying against the pirates in video 2? They'd probably last 2-3 times as long, let alone your capital ships. Just make sure you keep the Hoshikos away from the enemies targetting. What you'll use the Cielos for is "Designate Target". It provides a great damage bonus against a single target in the enemy fleet. Use it, then focus fire that ship and it will die fast. I believe it also has an ability that boost shield regen for a bit.

Ninth piece of Advice: When focus firing ships, focus fire the weaker ones with high DPS before the stronger ones with lower DPS. The Cutthroats? Yeah, they're tough. Lots of health. However, Pillagers [Might have the ship wrong, just check the HP and damage and find the lowest HP highest damage ship] deal some decent DPS, and have less health than Cutthroats. Taking them out will lower the overall damage your fleet is receiving far faster than trying to down a cutthroat.

Tenth piece of Advice: Largely optional, but it can make you play a lot better. Don't bother trying to get cinematic views of your ship fights. Its wasting time that you could spend building more ships, managing your ships, researching technologies or anything else. You won't lose out to bad - you can save the recording of your game before you quit, and watch that afterwards to get your cinematic camera angles. What it will mean is that your fleets will probably win more often, you'll probably be more technologically advanced then your enemies and you'll generally have larger fleets with better ships.

Eleventh piece of Advice: Don't use visual indicators to judge how damaged your ship is. Use the HP numbers. I noticed in your third video you stated that your ships needed repairs, likely because they were smoking. They start smoking the second they get so much as a scratch on their hull, once their shields are down. The capital ship you highlighted was at 98% or 99% health. That does not need repairs. That needs to get into the fight ASAP to save your planets. Also, pay more attention to your ships levelling up. Your capital ship had a ability and command point for about 10-15 minutes or more there, and you sent it through about 2 fights without upgrading that. Abilities are your friend, and strikecraft can be some great extra DPS for your fleet. Don't neglect them.

Twelfth piece of Advice: When you build a Diplomatic Cruiser, sitting it in your own gravity well is the worst thing you can do. It will do literally nothing there. Your AI allies will have sent plenty and they will be giving you bonuses. Do the same to them. Send any diplomatic cruisers you make to allied planets. This will boost relations with them - allowing you to propose pacts to them which will boost the strength of both your fleets - as well as provide bonuses to income, population and build speed for your ally, allowing them to get an economic edge faster.

Thirteenth piece of Advice: "Should I make fighters or Bombers? I don't really know". That depends on your goals. Spamming bombers will give you a lot of extra DPS against enemy frigates, cruisers and Capitals, and en mass can be extremely effective at taking out anything. Fighters are more of a shield for your fleet. They will attack enemy fighters and bombers, stopping them from damaging your ships. Personally I will generally go for a 60%-40% split of Fighters and Bombers respectively.

Fourteenth piece of Advice: Pay attention to the bars to the left and right of a planet when zoomed out. This is sparked by your "No planets are under siege" comment in Pt 4, when even when fully zoomed out it is clear to see that your Volcanic planet has a large fleet attacking it [Well, a small fleet, but technicalities!]. The left bar is your and your allies' ships, coloured the same colour as you and your ally. The more colour there is on the black bar, the more ships you have in the Gravity well. On the right side is the enemy's force bar. Similarly, it is coloured the colour of your enemies, and the more colour there is on the black the more enemies are in that gravity well. There is a third bar at the bottom of the planet. This depicts structures of your own, your allies and your enemies. Again, colour coded per player, and the more colour on the black bar the more structures you have there.

Fifteenth piece of advice: If you spot an undefended planet, bomb it. At about 5:30 on your fourth video you just fly right through the enemies desert planet, even though there is nothing there that could put up any sort of fight had you wanted to attack it. Attacking that planet will help you two fold: 1. It removes their income, and frees up another planet for you to colonise. 2. Since you are fighting AI, there is a 99% chance they will turn their entire fleet around, stop attacking your planet and come to defend their own the second you start to bomb their planet. This can be used to draw them away from your weakly defended worlds with a lone siege frigate, whilst you get your fleet into position to fight them. Doesn't work on human players though.

Fifteenth piece of Advice: Get starbases sooner. Upgraded Starbases are amazing offensively and defensively. Place them in your gravity well for defence, attack an enemy and build one at their planet whilst attacking for offence. They also have an upgrade which makes your planet unable to die until the Starbase is destroyed.

Sixteenth piece of Advice: Get Percherron Carriers faster. Whilst you're not entirely sure about strike craft, imma tell you now they are the muscle of your fleet. Get about 8 percherrons for a small fleet and you'll do significantly better in most fights. Spam Percherrons so you have about 50, then spam bombers on each, and send them against your enemies and their ships will die before they even get a shot off. I wouldn't do this though, as its expensive and kinda cheesing the game.

Answers to questions:

"Should I attack Orange with a Titan and Support Fleet?": Yes. Attack the Desert Planet. Odds are they will fall. However, first I'd get yourself a Dunov as well, and a few more Cobalts [Cheap, reliable DPS. Note how the AI has a ton of their equivilent for the Advent. You want to have as many if you can]. LRMs aren't bad, but your sending them in as the first attack wave when they are basically glass cannons and will die within seconds. Build more LRMs, but jump your fleet in in unison so that the LRMs are less likely to be targeted. Also, more Cielos and Hoshikos, and research Designate Target.

"Should I be paying the Pirates off all the time?": Depends. In your situation, yes if they are going to attack you, no if they are going to attack your allies. Your allies can hopefully handle themselves for a bit, but at this point the pirates will be reasonably strong, and you have a comparatively weak fleet for this stage of the game. Buff it up using the above advice. When talking the first 1 or 2 pirate raids, however, it is my policy to try and be the target. This means the pirates will attack you, and you can fight them with your capital ships, gaining experience and levels in the process. Late game... Pirates are evil, unless you have a decent fleet/decent defences. Pay them off unless you have filled the left bar I mentioned in advice 14 with your ships.

"Should I attack the Pirates?": NO! The pirates are about 10X stronger at their home base than they are when attacking you. If you want to attack the pirates, get your Titan, your current fleet, buff it up using the above advice, get some Ogrov Torpedo Cruisers [About 6 or 8], and make sure you have filled the left bar. Then attack. Jump the Ogrovs in after the rest of your fleet. Attack the pirate fleet with your fleet and use the Ogrovs to take down the structures.

 

How to salvage this match:

1. Research Starbases. Build one on your volcanic planet and asteroid planet that are next to Orange. Upgrade them a little [2 Weapons, 3 Hull]. These will hold the gravity well forever and for all eternity, especially if you put repair platforms next to them.

2. Buff up your fleet, then attack Orange's desert planet. That planet is undefended, has a free trade port and is amazing for Tactical slots. Take it, colonise it, then assess your situation as to whether you should attack other planets.

3. Research military techs. Get every hull, armour and damage upgrade up to tier 3 now. They will make your fleet a lot more effective.

4. Research Civilian techs. Get all the planet population boosts and metal/crystal extraction rate boosts. This will allow you to get resources faster and build more ships faster. Also, research trade ports.

5. Build trade ports. These things will give you a LOT of income fast if you build 1 per planet. Gets you a lot more ships a lot faster.

6. Build a balanced fleet and constantly assess orange and red's strength. If one of their planets looks like it might be easy to conquer, attack it. If they look like they'd kick your ass, hold back and defend against their next attack before making your move. Reading my above comments you should get a basic idea of TEC fleet synergy, though hopefully someone else will explain it better than I have. I'm running out of time so I can't explain it in full, however watch some other replays, read the tactics guides in non-Rebellion sections of this forum - they generally hold true for Rebellion as well - and start to design your fleet a bit better. It will make it a lot more effective.

 

I know I'll probably be a little misinformed with some things here, so could somebody please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Please note: We are talking SP ATM, so SP strategies should be talked about. Feel free to say "This wouldn't work in MP" though.

Reply #3 Top

Jocarren I think you did a nice job explaining ^__~  

 

I personally love the col for early game, altho the gauss does eat your antimatter, it does alot of damage and helps alot to take down frigs, but that's just me(A person who isn't really experienced) and I personally research shields before hull, since I try to not get into hull with my capitals.

 

And yeah, pirates get real mean late game, I had a game where pretty much all the pirate ships had over 60 damage each, they destroyed  a starbase and planet of mine...But they helped great taking down my enemies with that much dps :)

Reply #4 Top

Lots for me to take in here, brilliant stuff though, it will really help me progress in this game.  I will try and adapt as much as I can in my current game but I think it's going to take quite a few more games to get to know the units, formations and general micro managment that is required.  I can't wait to put some some of these tactics into play.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help, especially the essay of goodness from Joccaren :)

Reply #5 Top

Quoting ezeltje299, reply 3
I personally love the col for early game, altho the gauss does eat your antimatter, it does alot of damage and helps alot to take down frigs, but that's just me
End of ezeltje299's quote

I love Kol too. Most awesome starting cap ever. Great combination of Firepower (LASERS!) and Defense. Not to mention that intimidating look!

 

Reply #6 Top

Quoting ezeltje299, reply 3
Jocarren I think you did a nice job explaining ^__~  
End of ezeltje299's quote

Thanks, I do try, though I'm certainly not as experienced as many others around here who could probably find a couple of flaws in what I've said. Best I could come up with in the time I had though.

I personally love the col for early game, altho the gauss does eat your antimatter, it does alot of damage and helps alot to take down frigs, but that's just me(A person who isn't really experienced)
End of quote

I'd love for Mecha's input on this, however the primary reason I go against the Kol as a starting Cap is due to reports of other ships performing its job better than it. The Sova having a higher DPS thanks to 3 squads of strikecraft as an example. Adaptive forcefield makes it good for tanking, but early game that isn't necessarily something you'll need [I wouldn't think most players would do a zerg rush tactic, unless on point blank or something similar, and planetary militia don't quite satisfy my books as having enough sustained DPS to require a tank ship].

Gauss Rail Gun only does a lot of damage early in the fight as well. Once a fight has gotten into full swing, Shield Mitigation removes 60% of its damage, leaving it to do a whole lot of nothing [I believe it is affected by mitigation anyway as it does not directly effect the hull]. When I get it I'll generally just let 1 or 2 shots off at the start of a fight, then dedicate the rest to Adaptive Forcefield and, if I have spare AM, Flak [Minimum of 2 Kols. Otherwise flak is worse than GRG - costs 100 AM and won't kill a single SC].

and I personally research shields before hull, since I try to not get into hull with my capitals.
End of quote

Really that would depend on the race I'd think. For the TEC, 3/4 of their health is in their hull, so going for no hull damage in a fight is a little unrealistic. In addition, Hull upgrades are generally earlier in the tech tree and cheaper than shield upgrades, making them  a superior option for getting that boost early on.

And yeah, pirates get real mean late game, I had a game where pretty much all the pirate ships had over 60 damage each, they destroyed  a starbase and planet of mine...But they helped great taking down my enemies with that much dps
End of quote

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they got buffed in Diplomacy or Entrenchment [Got them both at once so I'm not sure which one :P]. I've read a couple of comments about their turrets being nerfed in Rebellion, which has my hopes up for that, but I'll have to check.

 

Quoting Mack777, reply 5
Lots for me to take in here, brilliant stuff though, it will really help me progress in this game.  I will try and adapt as much as I can in my current game but I think it's going to take quite a few more games to get to know the units, formations and general micro managment that is required.  I can't wait to put some some of these tactics into play.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help, especially the essay of goodness from Joccaren
End of Mack777's quote

Welcome. It generally does take a few games to learn about each ship and structure, and I'd recommend doing a round as the Advent and Vasari so you know what each of their ships are as well. Formations are generally a bit more simple: If its got low HP or armour, send it to the back. Setting a fleet for the ships, and telling them to jump in unison can help, though I'm a bit split on whether having ships in a fleet is advantageous or detrimental overall. Micromanaging you can, for the most part, leave to the AI. You'll occasionally see a few tactics - like the suicide run to behind the enemy for a dying ship I mentioned - or come up with them that you can utilise, but generally having your ships jump into a gravity well together, then just telling them to attack will tide you over - at least against the AI.

Hope it ends up going well for you!

 

Quoting Mecha-Lenin, reply 6

Quoting ezeltje299, reply 3I personally love the col for early game, altho the gauss does eat your antimatter, it does alot of damage and helps alot to take down frigs, but that's just me

I love Kol too. Most awesome starting cap ever. Great combination of Firepower (LASERS!) and Defense. Not to mention that intimidating look!

 
End of Mecha-Lenin's quote

From most of the discussions I've seen, the Sova has reported as the superior ship in the way of overall firepower by virtue of its strike craft, whilst the Kol is praised mostly for its Adaptive Forcefield, making it a great ship for tanking. Is this incorrect, or do you just feel the Kol is more reliable in its firepower? Something I've been kinda iffy about, but I've trusted the forums on it.

Can't deny it looking badass though. Probably my favourite looking ship in Sins.

 

 

Edit: Ok, I have no clue what is up with the formatting here. Near as I can tell everything is correct, it just doesn't seem to want to work properly -.-

Reply #7 Top

Well I'm sure the forum is right as well, But everyone plays their game different, I just like the kol since I can easily clear the weaker gravity wells in a minute and then move on to the next one.

.The sova has his flaws however, bombers aren't really that tanky, and most deserts etc. got atleast 1 flak, meaning the bombers will die and your dps will be shit(My opinion)

And colony capitals, I tried yesterday with the advent(Altho weak in early game I've heard(And felt yesterday)) it went good, up until the point where I had to fight an enemy kol, I had to retreat while my army was a little bit bigger than his because my frigs just kept dieing to the power of his gauss/tank/overall dps against the frigs. But once I got my titan nothing could stop me xD But I like vasari/TEC the most, advent not so much even tho their weapons look the most awesome and they are shield tanked which I like the most, even tho it's the weakest.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting ezeltje299, reply 8
Well I'm sure the forum is right as well, But everyone plays their game different, I just like the kol since I can easily clear the weaker gravity wells in a minute and then move on to the next one.

.The sova has his flaws however, bombers aren't really that tanky, and most deserts etc. got atleast 1 flak, meaning the bombers will die and your dps will be shit(My opinion)
End of ezeltje299's quote

Bombers are surprisingly resiliant against Flak, at least compared to fighters, and are constantly rebuilt. One place the Sova gets a lot of sustained firepower from, however, is its missile batteries ability. Reasonably durable, and they add a fair level of DPS for not a lot of Antimatter.

And colony capitals, I tried yesterday with the advent(Altho weak in early game I've heard(And felt yesterday)) it went good, up until the point where I had to fight an enemy kol, I had to retreat while my army was a little bit bigger than his because my frigs just kept dieing to the power of his gauss/tank/overall dps against the frigs. But once I got my titan nothing could stop me But I like vasari/TEC the most, advent not so much even tho their weapons look the most awesome and they are shield tanked which I like the most, even tho it's the weakest.
End of quote

Hehe, yeah. Advent's colony focuses largely on the shield regen ability. Malice or W/E the damage spreading ability is comes second IMO, but that shield regen is quite helpful - even if it does require channelling. A lot of the advantage of it early game I find is its ability to colonise, however. Gives you more slots and resources to focus on building a fleet - which as the Advent IMO should always be larger than a TECs. Obviously not going to be as good in a fight as a Carrier or W/E, but they get the job done.

A lot of the Advent's power comes from fleet Synergy. Having a few Guardians with you in any battle is extremely helpful, and most of their ships will complement the fleet as a greater whole when working together. They've got the worst superweapon, but with good synergy late game their fleet will defeat a TEC fleet on neutral grounds. Get a couple of the Colonies channelling the shield regen, and the Guardians putting up their extended shields, being fuelled by the Light Frigates grabbing Antimatter from the enemy fleet and returning it to you and you've got quite a formidable foe against you.

 

TEC are still my favourite though. Love the ship design, autocannons in Space have always been my favourite weapon type, and overall their a nice race to play. There might also be a bit of fictional racism going on their - Humans before Vasari, or modified Advent Humans, but we'll just ignore that...