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PUT IT BACK!

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PUT IT BACK!

from Sins Forums

What the hell!! I'm playing Vasari Rebels, go to research Enslaved Labor and it's not there any more!  The Vasari structures are already more expensive than any other race and now there's no way to ease the strain.  This is a base ability of the Vasari.  If I remember correctly splitting off the factions was supposed to be that you get all the base abilities of every race that have been the mainstay of the franchise.  But get more added on to it.  Not lose basic abilities that define a races playability.  Yes I know they get all for one now, but quite frankly it's a crap ability unless you actually have allies.  Plus it's an ability that only affects combat.  Enslaved labor is an economic/infrastructure ability.  If I had to have a choice between All for One and Enslaved Labor, I'd take Enslaved Labor hands down without question.  Especially considering how crap the Vasari economy is to begin with.  Put Enslaved Labor back on to the Vasari Rebels tech tree.  Put it back!

33,992 views 34 replies
Reply #26 from Sins Forums Top

It's been said already, it's still there, but in the diplomacy tree.

Reply #27 from Sins Forums Top

So, you claim Vasari has a worse economy than Advent.

I'm listening if you can come up with a reasonable explanation of this.  You're just wrong on pretty much everything you said, not to mention the tech is still there.  So this is awkward for you.

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Reply #28 from Sins Forums Top

Im gonna say it again.

The Vasari Rebels no longer have access to enslaved labor, this is also listed in the change log.

The Vasari loyalists have it in the manipulation tree.

Reply #29 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, I loaded Rebellion up real quick before posting this to check.

From a lore perspective, I actually wish the Vasari Rebels still had Enslaved Labor and here's why:

Alliances aren't always about international friendship and agreements and a shared vision for the future.  Sometimes they are about expediency and survival.  (BSG fans will do well to remember the final season).  Sometimes, states have to play nice with people they hate, people whom they would destroy if they had the power.  But they don't.

If the Vasari Rebels still had Enslaved Labor, that would give the TEC rebels a reason to break when the TEC Loyalists begin negotiations.  In their eyes, it would give them the moral highground.  

"How can we possibly ally with the Alien when it keeps our brothers in chains.  How can we side with the Witch who enslaves our sisters' minds?", the Trader Rebels ask.

What I like about the original Sins lore is that no one was blameless.  There are no "good guys" and "bad guys".  Just a cold universe and a terrible war.

I've actually been rolling around a short story in my head that explores some of this.  I may try to explain how the Vasari Rebels give up Enslaved Labor.

 Edit: That said, the TEC Rebels can still feel some justification just because of the violent history.  And to be fair, the TEC's sins were in the past as well (the exile of the Advent in my opinion), so this isn't a loss for the lore.  This actually presents some new interesting issues for what I'm thinking about.

Reply #30 from Sins Forums Top

I think its fits the vasari rebels quite well, first of all there new found spirit of cooperation would dictate that they cease enslaved labor. Secondly they wish to take the other factions with them when they run from the enemy, and you cannot do that without major issues if your continuing to enslave their peoples. And finally it seems that the vr have finally seen the "value" of the human species if solely from the fact that they cannot be so easily subjected and thus are maybe worth preserving and having good relations with. Unlike the other sentient species they encountered.

Reply #31 from Sins Forums Top

It was purely a lore related change, I don't think it had anything to do with balance whatsoever.  Hard to ally with the other races if you're using their people as slaves, no?

Reply #32 from Sins Forums Top

It wasn't a completely lore related change. I think it was partially to nerf them a little bit since they get a lot of nice techs to make up for it (although admittedly they aren't econ-related).

I think waiting to see what the next balance patch brings would be a good idea. The devs have a whole mountain of balance suggestions to sift through, so we'll have to see what they deliver...

Reply #33 from Sins Forums Top

Two words here folks...

 

Racial Diversification.

 

 

 

Does it fit lore wise? Sure.

Does it tweak the balance? Sure

Does it further the differences between the Vasari Sub-factions? Yup.

 

I hope they do more of this kind of diversification. It a great way to add more differences and not clog up the tech trees. Some are already jammed packed. 

Reply #34 from Sins Forums Top

I remember, when I first read the Vasari lore, I questioned whether the Vasari we see today were not actually the enslaved populous of that one planet that decidedly fled.

But then the remnants of the Dark Fleet came back, and they looked the same. Darn.

Quoting -Ue_Carbon, reply 34
I hope they do more of this kind of diversification. It a great way to add more differences and not clog up the tech trees. Some are already jammed packed.
End of -Ue_Carbon's quote

Some would argue that it takes away from the original game by giving players less options 'heat of battle'-wise than before, but I really wouldn't mind it either. I mean, five differences between Loyalists and Rebels is cool, fifteen would be great. Well, maybe not TOO much, otherwise they might as well have three new races enter the fray. Except it wouldn't have made much sense and... [begins mumbling in nonsensical sentences to self]