Game defenses too good!!

i am reaching a midpoint in the betas right now.  I am following the usual strategies of getting my base worlds up, defended where chokepoints exist and my ships done up.  Usually this keeps my worlds okay and my attacking ships good till about 2/3 or 3/4 into the game.  However I am getting to stalements in the game where both my and my enemy's titan, starbases and defenses get too strong to penetrate.

I have been to a point there it took my opponents (the AI) titan and 11 capital ships (god knows how many smaller supporting ships, I didnt count but it was a lot) to take out one starbase covered by gauss cannons and repair bases.  My starbase and the guns took out half the capital ships and all the smaller frigates before the defenses went down and my late relief force managed to cripple the remaning attacking force and almost destroyed the titan before it left system.  I was gaping at how astoundingly tough starbases are when fully buffed.  Earlier in the game an AI titan attacked my starbase and they went at it 1v1, and my base kicked the hll out of the AI titan destroying it easily.  

Also i should mention (as many no doubt have) that carriers seem to have a great deal of trouble trying to leave systems while under attack.  Bot the AI and I have lost carrier capital ships just because they cannot seem to patch out of the system and just sort of float about while I watch the path out of the system set and reset.

I have run into the same problems.  Attacking fortified defenses is taking FAR more resources and it seems I get to a point where I can beat the AI back into its last 5-6 systems but I cant get those foritified bases down plus the defensing capital ships and BILLIONS (thats not too far of an exaggeration) of defending bombers.

Is this just a beta thing where the ships are still being tuned, or is this going to require hours of buildup to overcome my enemy's defense?  the Ai has the same problem with me when my bases and ships are maxed out on stats.  Its just plain hard to kill stuff later in the game.

Anybody have any tips?  this has been a common theme and I get tired of trying to take out maxed out defenses and the game usually ends stalemated.  I also still have no way of getting rid of enemy mines presently.  the AI loves to seed worlds with dozens of them and when i destroy a worlds defenses, bombing the world becomes tough because there are so many enemy mines surrounding it.  I must be missing some new tactic or strategy.

14,692 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top

The AI always sucked at attacking heavy fortified defenses. When destroying them yourself either use vast amount of bombers, Ogrovs, or just go around them if you're certain they don't have fleet that can stop you. Unless its a fortifier AI they shouldn't have a lot of defenses on their inner worlds, and if you're like me and always play with capital victory just go for the kill.

Reply #2 Top

Yah that might be the only solution - go around them. and just destroy the world, move to the next.  I may also have to do as u suggest and just do the same as the AI and use a LOT of bombers as well.  But the same situation applies to me, later in the game it takes vast effort to destroy Titans or starbases, which by then have incredible and powerful reach.

Going through them and destroying enemy capability right now per planet later in game seems to be something i cant do.  I like to destroy defenses and capture the world without having to worry about enemy capability around the planet.  I think I have been playing against fortifier AIs too, the defenses have always been crazy thick.

Playing Capital Victiry just might be an easier way around this too XD  Dont have to destroy the entire enemy infrastructure.

Reply #3 Top

You'll need to be more creative against a Vasari player. Phasic Trap will hold strike craft in phase space, so you'll need something else to take out the hangars (or at least disable them/drain them of AM).

Reply #4 Top

You can also play with people on ICO (multiplayer) in games marked Comp Stomp or vs AI. This is the easiest way to see and compare how well others handle the situation you're having trouble with.

Reply #5 Top

TEC and Advent both have specialized anti-structure powerhouses. If you're playing as either of them bring 8-10 Ogrovs/Adjudicators and flak to protect from fighters/bombers. 

Vasari fleets lack a specified building killer, but each ship can take a beating. A strong line of Enforcers with Assailant support can do a lot of damage. Vasari bombers are powerful. Also, getting devious with the Kostura is always a good option. 

Reply #6 Top

Might be a better way to see how others do it.

I hadnt played in a while so stuck to old strats

-build up and defend base, defensible worlds at key chokepoints (usually 5-6 starter worlds).  Always had 1-2 smaller defense fleets to rove and assist attacked worlds.  Usually pace starbases at chokepoints and fully fortify them, keeping gauss  guns and repair platforms around them.

-build up miltary and economy trees.

-strong mixed capital ship and frigate presence, and lately adding more and more mobile bomber ships (Perchari if i recall, brain fart at the moment).  I love Trade so i usually stick with them and have a ton of repair bots accompanying my attacking fleet.

-Titan usually accompanies and heads my attacking fleet.  I usually focus fire down ship by ship presently cause it seems to get enemy fleets out the fastest.  In larger games I have two fleets because as you attack the AI in one spot and it rushes to defend, I can usually hit another spot same time scot free.

Granted this is noob strats vs the AI.  I havent developed an extensive use of macrosing of a good understanding of how to debuff enemy fleets or deal with their debuffs.

 

Reply #7 Top

"TEC and Advent both have specialized anti-structure powerhouses. If you're playing as either of them bring 8-10 Ogrovs/Adjudicators and flak to protect from fighters/bombers."


I hadent used the Orgov much to this point :O


They make that big a difference?  And yes flak frigates I have been starting t produce en masse.

Anyone also have ANy idea what corvettes are good for?  I havent seen them do much good in combat yet.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting shkotay, reply 7
They make that big a difference?
End of shkotay's quote

They can safely bomb any structure from outside that structure's attack range and they do significantly more damage against structures than other ships.  Taking down starbases and fixed defenses is their primary function.

As was said, the only thing they need to worry about (assuming an enemy fleet isn't around) is fighter-squadrons which is why you bring flak along.

As for mines, when the reveal abilities actually work properly, mines are very easy to get rid of.  Has this still not been fixed?

Reply #9 Top

I can easily see mines, but perhaps because I am still not familiar with all the new abilities yet, I cant find a way to dispose of them, hence they hang around and are invulnerable to attack at the moment.  Can you tell me where to find this?  

And using Orgovs sounds for beating up starbases peachy for this.  I may make them and the flak frigates a separate fleet accompanying my attacking fleet and just have them hit from long range.  right now getting my fleet into the ranges of starbases just tears them up presently.  Getting into a fight with a starbase and a defending fleet usualyl ends up with both sides minus a lot of ships.

Reply #10 Top

About 30 minutes ago I finished a 2v2v2v1 game as VL and I fully tech'd and upgraded (weapons 3/3, health 4/4 and enforced loyalty) SB and it was that along with 5 fully upgraded missile platforms and 4 fully upgraded hangers and a single repair bay, on a planet I had.

The team of AR brought their full fleet down onto my defences, titans and all (level 5 titans), so much shit flying around and pretty lights filling my screen, 10 minutes later my defences were gone so I sucked the planet dry and salvaged what structures were left. Looking at their fleet they had probably 1/5th of the ships they arrived with, they lost a good 3/4 of all non caps (mainly the heavy cruisers) and lost all caps which were at least level 3 and 1 titan. I was rather amazed that my, rather small amount of defences, wiped the floor with their fleet. Yes I did lose the system but the sheer amount of damage I did to them was crazy, they were set on unfair too.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting shkotay, reply 7
"TEC and Advent both have specialized anti-structure powerhouses. If you're playing as either of them bring 8-10 Ogrovs/Adjudicators and flak to protect from fighters/bombers."




I hadent used the Orgov much to this point




They make that big a difference?  And yes flak frigates I have been starting t produce en masse.

Anyone also have ANy idea what corvettes are good for?  I havent seen them do much good in combat yet.
End of shkotay's quote

Those torpedo cruiser are evil, you can take down a fully upgrade SB with ease with a group of 8. 12 if you want to take it down fast. When the ai sent a group of those against my heavily fortified worlds I tend to get a bit antsy until my fleet arrives.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting shkotay, reply 9
I can easily see mines, but perhaps because I am still not familiar with all the new abilities yet, I cant find a way to dispose of them, hence they hang around and are invulnerable to attack at the moment. Can you tell me where to find this?
End of shkotay's quote

Sakhari, the Scout's reveal mines ability was fixed in Beta3 (0.96). 

Shkotay, although you can see the mines, your ships can't!  Not until you bring a scout along to "reveal" them.  So just send a few scouts near the mine fields, followed by ships to attack the mines.  Flak works well because it can shoot at mines in several directions at once.  Even landing strikecraft near the scouted mines works well.

Valkyness, I think you would have done even better with at least 2 (maybe overlapping) repair bays.

Reply #13 Top

Yah my SBs when fully upgraded tear the opponents a new butt.  The incident I spoke of, I had 1 upgraded SB, 5 upgraded gauss guns, 3 hangars upgraded and 3 repair platforms.  The SB gund and platforms were all in each others covering area.

My SB plus that took out half the capital ship force (getting the rest right down to half or less which my relief force picked off) the titan to 1/3 and destroyed I would estimate about 40 various frigates.  The attacking force killed the repair platforms and the guns in short order too so the SB was relying mainly on its own capabilities alone before finally falling as my relief fleet arrived.  I just stood back and went "wow :O...." jaw to the floor lol.

I will use the Orgovs in much greater scale next time too.  I like the idea of joining games of Comp Stomp to see what ppl do to get an edge over hard modes as well :D Might try that out.

 

Reply #14 Top

Thanks Sage :D I had NO idea how ti get rid of those XD

Usually ended up with worlds I captured and like 20 mines around them rofl!  Goes to show my current Newb Status lol.

Thanks :D

Reply #15 Top

Quoting SageWon, reply 12
Valkyness, I think you would have done even better with at least 2 (maybe overlapping) repair bays.
End of SageWon's quote

I will have to make sure to do that next time, I think the reason I didn't have that is because I didn't want to scrap a missile turret.

Reply #16 Top

K, back to my off question: what good are the corvettes?  Currently I see them zoom in and zoom out, and not do much dmg.  Plus they die right away.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting shkotay, reply 16
K, back to my off question: what good are the corvettes?  Currently I see them zoom in and zoom out, and not do much dmg.  Plus they die right away.
End of shkotay's quote

They're fast, they have a low resource and fleet cap cost making them easily spammable early on, and they're at least decent against pretty much everything in the early game.  They might not seem like much to look at if you only have a small handful of them but a large number of them (which are relatively easy to get) are dangerous early on if your opponent doesn't have the right fleet composition.

Reply #18 Top

Its not that the defences are too good its that the AI is really bad! 2 weeks before release of their 2nd expansion after starbases were introduced and they still have not fixed the AI so that it knows how to attack a starbase :(

Reply #19 Top

Quoting GrimFear, reply 18
Its not that the defences are too good its that the AI is really bad! 2 weeks before release of their 2nd expansion after starbases were introduced and they still have not fixed the AI so that it knows how to attack a starbase
End of GrimFear's quote

Actually there are some improvements. The AI actually knows to bring bombers and Orgovs into the battle. Just they arn't good at making sure they stay alive. Heck there have been times where they actually decide to bypass my defenses and engage in a well behind my frontline world.