Balance Question/Issue

It appears to me that the balance of the game has been substantially changed in the last few releases.

I started out playing at Novice level when I first bought the game.
AI players at that time would be weaker than me, or at least no stronger when I encountered them.

Suddenly, from 3 or 4 releases back, AI Players are always 2-4 times stronger than I am, even when I am playing on Novice level and the opponent(s) were added at Novice level.

For instance, I just quit a game where I was playing the Kingdom of Tarth. Had just discovered Advanced Archery and was building infantry and archers as fast as I could. Only had armor up to padded, but still better than the bandits I had encountered.

Suddenly, with no warning, my opponent (Empire of Umber) appears.

My numerical strength rating was 74; Umber's was 237.

Is this even close to reasonable, for what is supposed to be the easiest level of the game???

The opponents are never less than twice my strength, and as shown above can easily be 3 or 4 times.
And within 5 to 10 seasons of encountering the stronger opponent they begin blackmailing me for gold or threaten to attack.

If I refuse to pay the blackmail, I get attacked and quickly defeated.
If I pay it, the amount goes up every few turns and the opponent continues increasing in strength faster than I can, unless I switch all my resources into warfare technology and building troops.

Again I ask, is this supposed to be the EASY level of the game?

I really like Elemental; it's the best fantasy strategy game I've seen in a LONG time.
But these balance issues are seriously detracting from my enjoyment of the game.
Especially since they were not there when I initially installed the game but appeared after updates/patches.

7,110 views 6 replies
Reply #1 Top

Hi - as someone who's been playtesting each patch for several months I think I've got a pretty good grasp of early game. Here's my advice:

  • First two techs to research are Equipment and Leather armor. This allows you to wield oak spears and gear your sovereign or champions to tank effectively for awhile. A champion duked out in all leather armor with an axe and shield can run with like 15 defense early game. This is more than adequate to fight off monsters and early units from othe factions. The normal units I build are:
    • Start - Staff for weapon and no armor - design and build two of those and garrison your capital
    • After Equipment - Oak spear and padded cuirass - this allows good defense against spider hordes and awesome attack early game
    • After Leather Armor - Oak spear and leather cuirass - same as above but 1 better defense value
  • First spell to research is arcane weapon. I can't emphasize enough how important this is. Arcane weapon is a 1 casting cost and 1 maint spell that gives +5 attack. That's a HUGE attack buff early game. For example, staff wielding units have an attack of 5. This buff doubles their attack to 10. Oak spear units have an attack of 9 and the buff increases their attack 50%. HUGE! The other thing - cast it when you need it (i.e. about to attack or be attacked) and then dispel it when not needed. The fact that the casting cost equals the maintenance cost means you should never leave it on idly.
  • Make your sovereign or champions the "tank" and supplement offense with cheap garrison units with high attack/low defense - let the tanks absorb the counter attacks in tactical combat and use the cheap units buffed with arcane weapon deal out the damage without suffering counter attack 

It's how I conquer 1-2 factions early on in the ridiculous level game. Please see reply #27 of this thread for my saved games of patch 1.19j: https://forums.elementalgame.com/404664. If you're playing the latest 1.19j patch, feel free to download those saved games and take a peek at my methodology over time. I haven't really been able to play deep into mid or late game lately because of all the new patches but that's ok. I'd really like the OOM and bugs worked out so we can move onto 1.3 content. B)

Goal should be to take 1-2 factions out early and then you have a solid base (2-3 capital starting locations with all the resources that go with it) to conquer the rest of the map. I also run with a custom sovereign based on bard/charisma. Why? Because it allows me to hire heroes cheaply to do the fighting while the sovereign charisma buffs prestige thus rapidly expands the settlement ZOC's which nullify monster spawns. Anyway hope this is helpful. There are certainly other ways to play the game but it's a style that I've found successful and personally enjoy.

[Edit] Also recommend at least 4 production of materials in your capital. Extremely important early game so you can spam the cheap high attack/low defense garrison units. Later settlements won't need 4 materials in each but early game proper materials production is key.

Reply #2 Top

They have done alot of work on the AI because players were complaining about it, and rightly so. However, they failed to really tone done novice level to make up for the AI improvements across the board. Honestly this is probably because undoubtedly  there aren't alot of people who play at novice level. 

Reply #3 Top

Thank you both for your replies.

Desraider, I'm playing on novice level because just as I was ready to move up, after playing several games, I ran into the issues I described.

AlLanMandragorn, clearly some of my problems are with how I do my early game research. I've never even considered the methodology you described, but will give them a shot.

Neither of you has quite addressed the question of why the factions I encounter are consistently so much stronger than I am.

I'll be interested to see how things work out with a change in strategy, and also at a higher level.

Reply #4 Top

Quoting tancred1425, reply 3
Neither of you has quite addressed the question of why the factions I encounter are consistently so much stronger than I am.
End of tancred1425's quote

You're welcome. Their faction power is stronger than yours because basically they have more settlements, resources, and military. I think the AI is probably putting more into their warfare techs thus their military might is stronger. Focus on obtaining a stronger power base early game and I promise you'll make it to mid game and beyond. |-)

Reply #5 Top

I would also suggest you pay little heed to the game generated power ratings.  I consistently beat the game on hard and extreme difficulty where my power rating lags behind the computer opponents anywhere from 150-200 points.

You are doing tactical battles, right?  As Allan posted above, your superior play in TC will turn the tide against a much larger foe.  I also recommend a few ice elementals to help freeze more powerful enemies until your archers take them down.  It is more reliable than Grip of Winter and causes some damage to boot. 

Load up a tank hero with healing nectar too, it doesn't seem to cost action points to have them drink potions...

Try Murteas cantrips and magic mods and Kenata's Updated Weapons... both will give you more TC options.

And when you use arcane weapon on a 4 man archer squad it is even more HUGER ;)

Have fun storming the castle!

 

Reply #6 Top


I really like Elemental; it's the best fantasy strategy game I've seen in a LONG time.
End of quote

 

I bet that brought a tear to Frogboy's eye. 

 

 

Anyways, back to your hardship.

Which version of the game are you playing? 1.1? If so, is the new "population as a resource" giving you problems when building/training units?

One of the first things you should do  at the start of the game is be on the lookout for a champion of the opposite sex so you can marry him/her and have babies. You should also train up 4-5 men with spears and go bandit/monster/quest hunting with your sovereign. You will also want to buy for you sovereign and champions/children the best weapons and armor available to make them tough to kill (don't forget the +defense cloak). If you feel like your empire is weak, you could also choose to spawn a free guardian unit in your city when it levels up, but when you get better at the game you really should choose one of the other options instead.

As for the numerical strength rating of opponents, it would have to do with them founding more cities than you and having greater armies. But don't take that to mean that you should build many cities as well. As an example, on the largest map size, I had the highest strength rating, but I had only 3 cities; granted those cities were level 4-5.

Also, when your opponents steamrolled you, did they defeat you in numbers or with better weapons/armor?

In terms of magic, I would also recommend for the early game teleport, heal, and the spell that lets you teleport your sovereign directly to your city.