yesterday night I was playing advent and got 3 skirantra rush too. I owned him with 2 halycrons loaded with fighters and about 10-13 defense vessels. gets more tricky of course when they level up.

With what?

Can I see your auto-replay? If you don't have it, try to go into a bit more detail about what strategies you used...

I will wait until the Beta becomes non-beta. Thanks though.

Thanks.

Something to look at here as Vasari bombers have 5 armor and there may be a case for bombers in general, though I think the issue may be lack of fighter viability due to flak. Some good suggestions have been made around this already.

If you let sensible vasari player build 3 skirantras it can mean 4 things:1) you have now enough lrm to melt skirantra in seconds, so he wasted money 2) you went eco and will soon outspam him 3) he has many, many  neuts and you'd be fucked even if he colony frig rushed you 4) l2p. Bottom line being 3 skirantras in short run are very cost inefficent... hell, even 2 are. Proof? Akkan+lrm beats 2 skirantras. Just watch those freaking replays.

I think devs actually did good job adjusting scram bombers (they tend to overnerf). It's no longer OP but still very good ability.

Vasari bombers are overpowered...their construction time per squadron is significantly better (99s vs 139 for Advent and 138 for TEC) and I think this advantage gets easily unnoticed...the extra armor is also somewhat a problem, though per squadron Vasari bombers have less HP (420 vs 525 for Advent and 500 for TEC)...the real issue is that the HP per individual SC is higher than the other two factions, making it much harder to shoot down an individual bomber...

It is for this reason that scramble bombers is so effective...it simply is impossible to actually destroy any of the bombers before they disappear and are replaced by a fresh squadron...late game, repair cloud makes vasari bombers practically invincible...both scramble bombers and repair cloud wouldn't be nearly as OP in combo if they were given to TEC or Advent...but, the combination of these abilities and a very high HP per unit makes Vasari bombers so tough, you're only real option is to go straight for the caps themselves (which isn't a very good option)...

A more appropriate construction time would at least put Vasari on par with the other factions, though this does nothing for scramble bombers...in my opinion, shifting Vasari squadrons up one SC per squad is part of the solution...if Vasari bomber/fighter squadrons had 4/5 SC instead of 3/4, they wouldn't be so hard to kill (obviously HP and DPS per unit have to be adjusted accordingly)...

I do agree that a major part of the problem is how powerful bombers are in the first place...if you ever play with modifications that make bombers weaker, scramble bombers doesn't seem to be OP at all (post v1.2), especially if fighters are made to be viable counters...

Thank you Greg for your sane post, I just hate those TEC theorists with their meaningless numbers, long, pretentious posts and little knowledge of actual gameplay. TEC SP lobby rules forum atm and I'm afraid devs listen to these people.

Although I could say something against your reply seleuceia I choose not to.

You were anti Vasari in so many posts already that its pointless.

Fact that combined Jugernaut research and Sovas LVL 6 abiity can pop out LRMs every 4 sec or so kind of disappears from your radar.

Another fact while embargo rushing with purchased LVL 3 Sova gives you 70% of enemy income and his income is 70% less goes by you as well .....   

I think as far my testing goes all races are on pretty equal footing at the moment. I didn't play skilled game that would drag into really late game.....

I completely disagree with that. LF with right upgrades are formidable weapons.

You hardly ever see this...and even if you do, pre v1.2 TEC fleet was so inferior to Advent and Vasari it didn't matter...even with v1.2, the issue is not TEC industry, its dem bots...industrial juggernaut is a level 7 tech with three levels and keeping a lvl 6 TEC capital ship alive is rather difficult...the situation you posit is not even remotely OP compared to a single level 5 tech that upgrades the best early game support ship...

I really think you are just disagreeing with me because you can...LF are seriously weak, even with their abilities, and that is pretty standard opinion...Vasari LF in particular are pretty bad since they are expensive and have terrible DPS...the only viable situations for LFs is when your opponent makes some seriously poor choices for fleet composition (like, all flak or all carriers), and those situations are easily remedied by having a good amount of LRF (which just happen to be the best unit)...LFs simply die too fast for their abilities to really have much use...

I defer to my original statement that if LFs were made more useful (which is something that should be done anyway) then dem bots wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem...TEC players will almost always have LRMs, so any horde of LFs will be quickly pummeled before it does anything to those hoshikos...your argument maybe could stand for disciples, but advent are so gimped in other areas that I don't think it really matters...

You continually label me as some anti-Vasari zealot, as if I hate Vasari regardless of how strong or weak they are...

A lot of players have continually criticized kosturas, subverters, and scramble bombers, not just me...

I would point out that I have advocated many buffs to Vasari (even before v1.2), including but not limited to stronger PM swarm (even better than v1.2), stronger subversion, better jarrasul colonize ability (which is now implemented in v1.2), cheaper colony pods on SB, significantly better buffs for overseer, more DPS for the skirmisher, higher bonuses for pop cap technologies...the list goes on...

I've also advocated debuffs to Advent and TEC such as weaker repulsion, weaker supply pact, and weaker novalith, so I really don't think you can argue I am vehemently against Vasari simply because they are Vasari...they were OP, and now they're not...that's not just my opinion, that is a view point shared by many people...and like many people, I am now concerned that TEC may be a wee bit too strong....

By "TEC theorists" I meant forum posters with fair/exceptional knowledge of game stats but little MP gaming experience, mostly playing TEC in SP.

TEC has always been pretty popular because it's easy to learn and play. EVE-O had Caldari, Age of Conan had Tempest of Set, World of Tanks has T-54. Every game has noob race/character/whatever that lets you play good without much effort. Sins has TEC.  Obviously I'm not trying to say that all TEC players are noobs, just saying that it's designed to be easy therefore attracts most casual players. Neither I'm saying that TEC is horribly OP (although it is strongest race now). It's just meant to be easy spam race.

Even old advent battle ball required quite a bit of micro, even if only with repulse. With TEC you just SPAM SPAM SPAM

...and LFs are not weak, they are used very often with success. I don't see how is that debatable. Disciples are not exactly rare sight.

TEC can uncontestedly get the best economy.

LF are good at fighting stuff they counter (carriers, flak, scouts and support ships), but are easily countered by lrf which are arguably the best ship type in the game.