Shameless promotion of my thread that was lost in the flood of new topics:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/393020

The Diplomacy system in Elemental is broken, actually.

So instead of asking to have the most basic treaties to be accesible without research, you just go and ask to have a whole tree removed? Wow.

I guess the only problem with that is that the civ tree is packed full of stuff. It's definately the most robust tree as it is. Still, you could probably spread the important stuff among the other trees. The warfare tree has alot of room for some stuff. Warfare is a foreign policy function after all.

Agree.

Split what's in there between the Adventuring and Civ trees and replace it with a race-specific tree to try and get some differentiation between the factions/races.

I think that dumping the Diplomacy tree is a little extreme.  My suggestions....

Right now the minor races are either too weak to matter, or too powerful.   You don't have much choice as far as minor race units are concerned either.  Lastly you are limited to an empire/kingom branch of minor races.

1)  Remove the kingdom/empire branch (since minor race settlements spawn randomly)

Instead make it an either-or choice.  For example darkling have a natural hatred for spiders.  So when you reach the apporpriate level you have to choose which race you will support and can no longer use the other.

2)  Expand the diplomacy tree to allow research for minor race abilities/equipment.  Then instead of just getting one unit, you get another base unit option in the unit editor.  So if you delve into the dipomacy tree enough you can equip your ogers with clubs and armor, or make rock spiders instead of just black widows.

3)  Another portion of the tree can grant you a special bonus depending on which race you control.  For example spiders will allow your units to use poison in combat.  Ogers, can give you a new building (Oger Workshop) which allows you to use Oger labor to increase your cities construction, and production.

4) Have a diplomacy tech that can create the Council of Kingdoms/Empires.  Sort of like the UN option in CIV.

5) Having a researchable Vassal State dipomatic option.  All those minor kingdoms.....

6) Have some basic dipomatic options available at the start

I decided to climb the diplomacy tree a little more, and I think I agree that dumping it is a bit harsh. Natural interactions with other kingdoms/empires needs to be kept out of it though.

I like the idea of expanding the diplomacy tree with the ideas presented here. Currently the diplomacy tree; as many have said is too short, and does not really give you the flavor of diplomacy.

As suemperincomitatatus suggeste allow a player to persue a racial affinity - i.e. spiders and then unlock new spider related units.

As werewindlefr suggested add a intelligence network tree that allows players to build intelligence related buildings, execute intelligence relate activities, recruit spies (that you can send into enemy empires) and get intelligence reports.

Example:

a. Intelligence Network Tree

1: Intelligence Network - build intelligence HQ; allows recruitment of Spy Champions. Spy Recruitment allows you to recruit champions that can be recruited by other lords, once recruited they update your intelligence report on that kingdom periodicially - starting every 20 turns. This can be reduced to 10 turns with further research.

2. Covert Communications - updates spy report every 15 turns

3. Improved Covert Communications - Updates spy report every 10 turns

4. Counter Intelligence - build Counter Intelligence HQ Building; allows player increased chance to uncover enemy spies and prevent sabatoge or assassination operations. Each building you build increases the chance of detecting enemy spies or assasins that enter this city.

5. Assasins School - Where Assassins are recruited Assasins can be sent into an enemy city to slay an enemy champion or lord. Assasination attacks are resolved on the tactical map.

6. Royal Guard - This technology gives the lord access to additional guard units in the event of an assasintation attempt.  Assassinations are resolved on the tactical map.

Example: Player A builds the Assassins school and builds an Assassin. This unit appears as a champion unit the enemy cannot communicate with. The Assassin enters a city and can target any 1) random champion or 2) enemy lord present in that city or 3) do nothing. If enemy lord is selected the Assassin and the Enemy Lord face off on the tactical map. If the enemy lord has researched Royal Guard he is accompanied by d4 champions (or guards if no champions in that tile). If not he faces the assassin alone.

7. Expert Assasins - An improved assasins building can be built. Expert assasins of this school appear as champions that can be recruited to the enemy and attack their target one on one if they were recruited by that enemy fraction.

Now the player has to think; is that champion I want to recruit a spy or an assassin?

Agree with you on this.  Opening up Diplomacy and having a Diplomacy/Espionage tree would be the largest benefit.

Interesting ideas, I have tried to get a meta thread started on the Diplomacy tree...  Shameless post promotion:

https://forums.elementalgame.com/395966

Dump the tree? My vote is no..

I am solidly in the camp against dumping the tree and against losing early diplomacy techs..

I support expanding the tree to give it more depth but I do not support removing techs.. I see it this way when we are just forming our nation we barely understand how to get along with our own people.. Diplomacy techs represent and investment in time and effort to figure out how to better negotiate relationships with other nations, that will add to our power and help I move forward politically. These type of tech's are a standard in these styles of games..