Can't wait for the release - a contra thread for those being concerned :-)

from Elemental Forums

Hiho,

I'm still reading in several posts that people are concerned about the release date. The more I play the game and the more read the open minded and nice discussions between forum users and stardock people, the more I demand by myself to have the game released.

Currently there are may several parts in the game which isn't using the full potential it have
-> after release, mod it in

Currently there are people like to have a bit of different view how the gameplay should be
-> after release, mod it in

Currently people complain about the stability of the game
-> yep, thats my concern too, but I currently believe if Frogboy is telling us that the next version will be far more stable. At least, what I was reading since I started the first beta testing here, he never promised something which was not true :-)

I mean, from a design point of view, all different actions / options are in. If something is missing (e.g. more reseach options, more improvements, more monsters, etc), it seems like that this should be doable by the modding community. The AI has to fight with the same option, and in the end it is always a race against the other players/AI :-) All have the same rulesets.

I have waited for a very long time since MoM for a revival and an opportunity which is given by Elemental. Even, the more I play the Beta, I wouldn't like to have a release later than August :-) Everything which goes beyond the design-book is part of polishing by modding and/or expansion. I additionally want to see the Campaign. Currently I don't have a clue how such a thing would work with a complex beast as Elemental is :-)

 

So, if the engine speed / CTD are solved - and I'm convinced this will be solved to only rare cases (hopefully), the campaign is finished -> Release :-)

I wish to Stardock that its getting the appropiate respect - I'm not sure if I should wish you that its getting sold as a topseller if I see what happened to independed studios after having such a hit. To be honest, how you treat the community and how you support your games is outstanding.

Thx again to start a game like this, have such an open communication and expected an timely release :-) Nevertheless, can't await beta 4 :-)

 

Thx

Wyl

PS: If you are ahead of your schedule, it would be nice if you maybe could add some features for the modders which are currently hardcoded (if this doesn't take to much effort). This would support the modders to make more out of the modder sandbox :-)

 

elemental
14,297 views 12 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I pretty much agree with everything you say. One point of concern though, don't throw so much on us modders. The game's by no means anywhere near complete, nor will it be for a few years....and it's up to Stardock to Finish It, Not Modders. We'll have plenty of modding to do though, no fear there ;)

I also don't have any concern about the release date. Bring it on!!! :)

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm a modder by myself, Not an 3d Artist guy but on the technical part :-) So for me modding is half of the game (the bigger part) :-)

CursorFX - Customize your Windows cursor
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

modders are never going to be great as the people who made the game unless the game was a mod of another game..

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting KillzEmAllGod, reply 3
modders are never going to be great as the people who made the game unless the game was a mod of another game..
End of KillzEmAllGod's quote

Actually I'd say that depends on the modders knowledge level, whether or not they have help (staff), and if they can afford the software/tools to do the job. Considering a "Legal" copy of 3DsMax costs around $400 and that's just a basic program that's needed for doing quality work, there aren't going to be a lot of "Top" modders out there doing things like Total Conversions. I myself have a wide range of skills, some better then others, but when it comes to scripting in Python I know nothing, nothing at all. I hear it shares some similarities with C# and C+ though so at least I won't be "totally lost" as many of the functions should be similar.

I plan on doing two mods so far, but my time-frames for both of them are completely unknown right now. Some things I can start on right at release, for others I'd like to wait and see what we get in that modding package which won't come until at least 60 days after release. Add to that I'll most likely have to take some time away to be in the hospital and it could easily be 4 months before the Dragonlance Mod see's the light of day (though I'll have the Map out Way before then).

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

I agree with raven. It Depends alot on the modding tools and the skill of the modders, I think there are several examples in the past that showed that the mods are more fun that the original game. nevertheless., I think that modder will add the spice to the game gg the basic is thhere and that counts. 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

I think there are several examples in the past that showed that the mods are more fun that the original game.
End of quote

I haven't seen one.. ever. DoTA might be a notable exception. If you're talking about FfH2, it's a very low production values mod (yay for stolen art from a bunch of other games).

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

arRRGGGG... i hate FFH2 wasted so much time on it only like 10 hours or so though... was fun for a bit but late game to many damn citys!

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 6

I think there are several examples in the past that showed that the mods are more fun that the original game.


I haven't seen one.. ever. DoTA might be a notable exception. If you're talking about FfH2, it's a very low production values mod (yay for stolen art from a bunch of other games).
End of Annatar11's quote

Are you a Total War fan, Annatar? There are some INCREDIBLE Mods out there for some of those games, like the LotR Mod for ..um...Med 2 I think. (didn't actually grab the Mod but I've seen it in action) Some of the work in that Mod looks like it's almost right out of the movie. There definitely Are some Top Quality game mods out there, but I would tend to agree one's with high production values are relatively rare.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 6

I haven't seen one.. ever. DoTA might be a notable exception. If you're talking about FfH2, it's a very low production values mod (yay for stolen art from a bunch of other games).
End of Annatar11's quote

If you look into the FPS history they were by far more open to modding than other types of games. I consider TF or Countertrike successfull mods too :-) In general, there are several maps (it's not always necessary to make a TC) by modders were far more fun then those designed by the original team for different FPS.

I remember the ACS 'Unlimited Adventures' for the former D&D games by SSI.. I don't remember all the modules, but there were some really enjoyable ones available too.

And all the stuff depends on the own playstyle and of course as Raven mentioned it additionally depends on the commitment of Stardock to support modders :-) 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Raven, reply 4

...but when it comes to scripting in Python I know nothing, nothing at all. I hear it shares some similarities with C# and C+ though so at least I won't be "totally lost" as many of the functions should be similar.
End of Raven's quote

By all accounts Python is considered one of the simpler languages to use. I've done limited work with it a couple of years ago (wrote a backup utility for the game Dominions) and while it took me a bit of time to understand it, it was very forgiving. My programming background is primarily web based (PHP, javascript etc) so I'm sure anyone who can work their way around one of the purer languages will settle in to Python fairly quickly.

:)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Das123, reply 10



Quoting Raven X,
reply 4

...but when it comes to scripting in Python I know nothing, nothing at all. I hear it shares some similarities with C# and C+ though so at least I won't be "totally lost" as many of the functions should be similar.



By all accounts Python is considered one of the simpler languages to use. I've done limited work with it a couple of years ago (wrote a backup utility for the game Dominions) and while it took me a bit of time to understand it, it was very forgiving. My programming background is primarily web based (PHP, javascript etc) so I'm sure anyone who can work their way around one of the purer languages will settle in to Python fairly quickly.


End of Das123's quote

Those are indeed good words on encouragement, my friend, thank you. Keep in mind though the most complicated things I've ever scripted were spells and spell effects and items for UO, plus a few NPC brain types. nothing major. That was also...hmm, about 7 years ago, give or take a year. When it comes to "modern" languages I'm definitely behind the times. I'm even considering picking up "Python for Dummies" to see what information I can gleam from that. Then again I might just avoid it entirely if I can as I know my way around XML pretty well and basically everything in Elemental is in XML and being exposed to Python. Python scripting would really only be needed if you planed on DRASTICALLY changing Elemental's Core Mechanics, which neither of my Mods will be doing really. Even the Dragonlance Mod will play with Elemental's basic rules. Sovereigns won't be called "Sovereigns" but they'll still be and play more or less like the same thing. I'll have to re-balance almost the entire game though as I plan on Drastically increasing the unit counts seen on screen. Still, according to Frogboy, pretty much everything I'm going to need to do I can handle through XML. Everything will be custom art work, maybe some models, skins, and textures, which I can handle my-self or draft some help with. Also depending on what Art Assets they end up giving us in the 60 Days Later package I might not really have any modeling to worry about.

Either way, I can't wait to get started :)

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Regarding Python, from memory the most difficult thing for me was simply getting started. There are a number of development environments you can choose from along with a number of UI packages. I chose Boa to do the editing based on initial research and while it was a bit 'lumpy' it was ultimately a reasonable production tool. I'm sure we won't be needing to interface with Windows so we won't need to bother with UI packages. Stardock will most likely give us some sample templates to reverse engineer and I'd guess a game API with the various classes and variables we can access.

As far as learning Python was concerned, the best resource I ended using was the help file and examples that came with Python itself. Books were a bit of a waste of time because the help files did a much better job easing you into the environment AND you could easily search for examples of your specific issue.

---- EDIT -----

Just found this link...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/81584

Looks like PyDev is the current tool programmers are recommending. :)