Personally i already preordered elemental...Civ5 might be okay but I wanted elemental more CIV has slowly decayed and besides its not the same genre Civ is Long term realistic *sorta* Civ management from the beginning of time....This game is actually a Post Apocolytic Rebuilding Fantasy Roleplaying Game see my point?

So much more awesome.

Im sure I posted here... well anywho I'll be picking up both. I mean both these games are going to be great.

I don't believe these games are a threat to each other. So far this year for TBS games these two are king. Haven't seen others as of yet that compair. But Its still early in the year.

Can't wait to preorder Civ 5 on Impulse!

I  have CIV IV - the complete edition still in it's shrink wrap. After playing alot of Civ II and Alpha Centauri I just couldn't maintain my interest level in Civ III for very long ( Been there done that ) . I bought Civ IV really just to support Firaxis and TBS PC gaming but I still haven't muster any motivation to play it.  Gal CIV II on the other hand keeps me plenty busy and I'm throughly enjoying the rich strategy goodness. 

I will probably purchase Civ V only to collect it and once again to support the genre with a vague hope that some other Indie developers continue to see some ability to turn a profit in creating such games.

I really like the concept of Elemental. Reminds me of the HOMM series and Age of Wonder series. Two series I loved playing and still get a craving to hunt down my CDs and relive the glorious fantasy combat. Elemental is definately on my must own and play list. I will buy that game way before I consider purchasing CIV V.

CivIII was pretty hum drum, but Civ IV BtS is really a masterpiece. Also you want to check out the huge number of files and mods on Civfanatics, including FFH if you like fantasy. Open that box and it will keep you busy until Elemental arrives.

I'm thinking I may wait for the inevitable Civ 5 "complete edition" before I buy it, but if it's really good I may jump earlier. Don't feel the same need to buy on day 1 because I'll also have Elemental.

Bad timing? Nah, it's great timing if you're a TBS fan.

To compare this situation to MOO3 would be foolish.  MOO3 was a ressurected franchise with different developers.  Civilization 5 is the Civ 4 team including Sid and Soren.  They know their stuff and they've done a number of TBSs.  It is possible Civ 5 will be a MOO3-type clunker?  Yes, it's possible.  Probable?  No, not really.

Elemental is going to have another problem if it releases against Civ5...  before Civ5's preview shots were released, Elemental looked fairly good for a TBS.  Civ 5 looks to significantly raise the standard.  And when you're comparing badly against a CIV game...  Reviewers will take Elemental to the woodshed over it.

It's in Beta, the graphics aren't done.  Yada yada.  I know.  But now's the time to make adjustments to ensure the game's success.

The last couple of Civ games were clunkers though (Colonization and Revolution are both entirely forgettable, to be charitable). It's not like the franchise has a track record of perfection (Civ 3).

Civ 5 is likely not going to fall into that category, but it's silly to assume the sky is falling.

No it's not.  Soren is at EA now.

I think Civ V will be awesome though.  But I'm not worried about Elemental's success.

It would be cool to see you and Stardock making a Civilization-like game after Elemental, Frog. Or perhaps you modding Elemental to a Civilization game when you take your break.

Soren got nicked by Maxis to try and get some proper gameplay into Spore.  Even he couldn't manage that.

I'd be more inclined to make a Civ mod for Elemental or something when modding.

I personally envision the long-term success of Elemental heavily tied to there being a LOT of free content available for people who bought the game.  

I would have made a lot more stuff for GalCiv but I was always modding GalCiv itself (in C++) when what I really wanted to be able to do is make mods that changed the game a lot.

Oh that's right.  I forgot about them nicking him for Spore.  Civilization phase.... (shudder). 

Commercial Civ: "Hi, wanna start a trade route between our cities?"

Military Civ: "No."

Commercial Civ: "Ah great! Well, I guess that means you win?"

Military Civ: "Yep."

What do you mean they won't submit to us?  I guess we'll just have to... play our music LOUDER.

i think Civ 5 will fail to elemental because elemental is something new in turns of being fantasy and having RPG elements(way better then FFH2), while Civ 5 is based on the older ones like citys being one tile so on.

The Civilization series has a really loyal following, there is no way this game fails unless the game is complete drivel.  Firaxis looks to be revamping the whole look and feel of the new game.

I don't see a scenario where Civ V "fails".  There are lots of people like me who will be buying it first day.

Civ V will outsell Elemental by a wide margin regardless.

Master of Orion 3 outsold GalCiv by a wide margin too btw.  

Unlike MOO3, I am confident that Civ V will be a really good game.  But I don't think most people are going to buy one or the other.

And at the end of the day, our motivation at Stardock is to make an outstanding game and release it when we think it's ready to be released.

I'll be getting both, but I feel sorry for those who must choose.

Not only will I be getting both.  I'll be getting them from Impulse. 

I mean, hey Civ IV was on Impulse. 

Anyways, I LOL at the initial comments.  More or less the ol'  "You're Do0med!!!1!!1 thread "

given the state of the video game market, there's very little possibility of such a high-profile failure.  even if Civ 5 delivers only the gameplay in Civ 4, it'll still sell like hotcakes.  the brand is really that strong.

the only way it could "fail" is if it releases with major bugs that are not quickly patched.  and I just don't see that happening.

however, not failing is not the same as succeeding.  I am a loyal follower of the Civ series, but I doubt that Civ 5 will deliver anything but tweaks to their (already quite successful) formula.  I know that there were things in Civ 4 that annoyed me, most of them were also in Civ 3 because they're intrinsic to the design of that game.

Though it's an aspirational target, Elemental has the potential to be a better game than Civ 5.  (Or it might end up they're both great games and not directly comparable.)  Because Elemental is not constrained by what worked in the last version, they have much more potential to deliver a fresh and exciting experience.

If that's what you mean by "Civ 5 failing to elemental" then you might be right.  

I too look forward to both games.

From a commercial standpoint, MOO3 was a success. It sold a lot more copies than GalCiv did.

Frogboy - You should try to acquire the MOO licence. A competent developer  (such as yourselves) really needs to get their hands on it, before Moo3 becomes the only thing people remeber about one of the best series in history.

EDIT: Plus it would make you oodles and oodles of money!

I'd love to do a MOO 4 (i.e. MOO 1/2 with better graphics and more advanced MP) but our plate is pretty full.

My point is that there is no scenario where Elemental outsells Civ V no matter what.  Wish for success for both.  

I am sure I'm not the only one who would like to see a LOT more than TWO major TBS games coming out a year.  

If we get that - chances are either Elemental or Civ5 will be delayed into next year - neither developer (you or Firaxis) is in fincancial trouble (meaning you MUST release or risk going out of busniess like many developers have to), and both are committed to putting out a good game. Thats why I hate release dates - they get you all excited, than they get pushed and you get all depressed. It wouldn't be so bad if there were more than a handful of decent games a year.... But these days, it's all FPS's, cloned strategy games, WoW imitators, et. al.

Going over the initial read for Sword of the Stars II, it looks like they're going to take their shot at MOO 2.1. Seeing as I'm having fun with SotS I say let them.