Game mechanism for teaming up on the big guys

from Elemental Forums

I came to think of one particular thing that keeps repeating itself in most strategy games (like GC2) and which actually makes the early to mid game predictable, and the end game sometimes just boring. It is basically that the pecking order among the civs for going to war and when is always the same (due to the AI). When a civ starts getting really powerful militarily and economically what happens is that all the weaker civs are sure to leave it alone since it would be suicide to attack on your own. At the same time the strong civ always attacks the weakest civ and crushes it, then takes the next in line etc. While the others idly stand by, whimpering, awaiting their own doom.

Compare with a game of Risk and it plays completely differently. As soon as one player starts getting powerful the other players will increase their attacks, but most of all they will try and team up against the threat. This is one of the most interesting aspects of the game since it means earlier promises are broken, new promises/lies or made, new alliances are forged etc. This is the stage where some players starts arguing and really hate each other (only in the game, hopefully, although not always the case ...) 

I think Elemental could learn from it, and should include some kind of mechanism, probably through diplomacy but maybe also helped by magic, quests, items and hero interventions, in order to allow weaker civs to both do something against rising threats without committing certain suicide, and also teaming up.

For example, instead of only having the option to ask civ x to declare war on civ y (which the AI always refuses in cases like above) there could be an option to team up against civ x. This could also be linked wider to alignment (option to propose that all good civs go against the big evil one), to religion (all of the true faith go against the heretics), to race (all humans against the fallen) etc. 

It's not only about all out war though. As important would be to have the option for example to team up against someone strategically (say through a secret treaty) meaning you do what you can to stop a certain civ from prospering: cutting trade, cancelling any positive treaties, refuse to trade or give resources, refuse access to territory, intensify spying activity incl offensive actions, if possible: attack caravans, make skirmish attacks etc. 

A good spy system would help a lot in letting weaker civs take some action against more powerful civs, hurting them without necessarily ending up alone at war against them. 

Also random events could affect the development, for example making all civs of a certain race more eager to go to war against the biggest due to an event, etc. Since this is mostly based on chance it should not be decisive though.

Another part of the solution would of course be to include such reasoning in the AI, if this is possible through Frogboy's magic ... But some diplomatic options for the player would be very nice in any case.

 

 

7,532 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

For example, instead of only having the option to ask civ x to declare war on civ y (which the AI always refuses in cases like above) there could be an option to team up against civ x. This could also be linked wider to alignment (option to propose that all good civs go against the big evil one), to religion (all of the true faith go against the heretics), to race (all humans against the fallen) etc.
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Not bad Gorgon...not bad at all

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Yes, a "cold war" against the top dog would be good. It depends on what in the game is possible (eg raids, if your units have your name on them its not possible to conduct a secret raid, but if like privateers in Civ IV you can have hidden nationality troops then direct raids against infrastructure are possible) and thats up to Stardock to think what they can add to the game to expand on this.

 

What I get also is that you suggest a diplomacy "council", where you get together all the AI players you want in your team and collectively ask that they team up and hit the big guy. This way kinda eliminates the hard task of getting that first AI player to join you in war, you all do it together. That would be very good, especially if the AI could understand something like "everyone attack in 4 turns time".

 

Nice :)

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

What would make this easier is if you could get multiple players at the table at once. In 99% of game with any kind of diplomacy, when you talk to another player, its one on one. If we could get some kind of multi-person bargaining table this could be pretty easy.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

What would make this easier is if you could get multiple players at the table at once. In 99% of game with any kind of diplomacy, when you talk to another player, its one on one. If we could get some kind of multi-person bargaining table this could be pretty easy.
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It is the future you see...what do you think Stardock? Factional Trade options? Good guys, bad guys, style of gov guys, rich guys, poor guys, no homerz guys. 4x would never be the same.