Customized spell ideas

Note beforehand:  This system is probably really unlikely ot actually make it into the game for a number of reasons, it is more as an idea for people to think about and such.

 

This is an idea for creating and researching spells in a manner similar to unit customization, so instead of researching fully designed spells, magical research would involve researching different elements of a spell, than putting them together ot make a full one.  Elements researched would include things like direct effects (increased damage, defense, etc., the "meat" of a spell), durations (for buffs, debuffs, damage over time spells), AoE, possibly mana cost reducations, and other such effects.  These different elements would than be combined to produce the full spells that a sovereign of other caster would use.

An example of how this might work:

Using the apparent magicval divisions (earth, fire, water, air, life ,death), and following convention, fire spells were associated with offense and direct damage, they might start with two options for fire spells research:  direct damage (allowing them to create a direct damage, single target spell), or increasing unit offense (allowing them to cast a buff on a unit increasing its damage.)

Once, say, the direct damage spell was researched, it might open up, say, three options:  One would be to increase the damage (creating a more damaging spell), the other would provide a small AoE, the other would cause a Damage over time effect that was more mana efficient than direct damage.

If, say, the AoE were researched, it might open up further options, say, ncreasing the potential AoE size, or allowing overland spells.

Further research might allow targetting the ground (to, say, buff allies standing on a piece of terrain, or damage enemies standing on it), creating aftereffects from combat, continue ot improve the original damage, AoE, etc. abilities of spells, and other possible effects that I have not thought of.  the "offensive buff" tree could leed ot speed boosts, berserk type abilities, summoning, etc.

When the faction leader decided to actually create spells to cast, they could combine these different elements as they saw fit.  (for example, if, say, AoE and damage over time abilities were combined in a spell, the resulting spell would cause a damage over time effect on enemies in an area.  To get something equivalent to, say, a diablo 2 meteor, someone might combine ground targetting, direct damage, and AoE).

The mana cost of the spell could either be determined by directly adding mana costs of each spell element, or by a more complex formula.  (this would be similar to how money costs of custom units are determined in various games.)

The same principles would apply to other elements, so, for example, life might start with healing and defense increasing abilities, and go from there, earth might start with defense increasing and slowing and go from there, etc.  In elemental, spells using different elemental nodes could be created by combining spell elements of the separate magic elements (Hopefully it is clear what I'm saying.  :) )  So, for example, a volcano might be created using earth's "raise terrain", fire's "AoE direct damage", and overland abilities from either of them.

(note:  Examples are not meant ot be taken as actual abilities to be associated with each elements if such a system were implemented, they simply were conventional examples ot keep things simpler to understand.)

 

The main issues I can see for such a system are that it would be more difficult to balance (for the same reasons that custom units often are), and that there could easily be a lot of overlap between different magic types (since there aren't that many different individual spell effects, and separate magic types would likely overlap in different elements of spells, leading ot overlap in the spells themselves.)  There are likely a number of kinks that would keep this from actually being used in the game, but hopefully it is at least interesting ot read.

7,569 views 4 replies
Reply #1 Top

Reminds me of Warlocks and their Shapes/Invocations.

If appart from researching spells we could actually create some in game (even if not so detailed like the OP) would be really cool and interesting.

Reply #2 Top

This could be quite a good idea. I'd have it a slightly different way though (inspired from the elder scrolls first episodes options).

The idea of "base effects" is good (like deal damages, damage over time, various buffs and debuffs, heals, summons, etc.)

The things that could be customized would then be :

- Spell power (more damage, more HP healed, etc.)

- Target (single, small area, whole battlefield, world xD)

- Duration (instant, a few rounds, permanent, ...)

These options would influence the research time and cast cost. Could be fun, another ruler with the same magic could have very different spells, based on his own strategy :D

Reply #3 Top

I would like elements of this to be taken seriously, even if we don't get something as complicated. Imagine having to make choices that would lead to two otherwise identical factions fighting in very different magical ways. One with area spells with buffs and the other with single target spells with long duration (as an example). Take life spells, group buffs/army healing with short 1-3 turn duration vs the other approach of boosting a hero with powerful "vengence", "invulnerable" spells with long durations could lead to very different strategies. I'd like it to be hard to have all strategies and spells maxed easily though. But if you wanted a single strong hero you'd want buffs and long duration, if you only used armies you'd need AOE spells, only seem to fight mundane armies? focus for damaging AOE spells, fight dragons? need high spell power direct damage or a buffed hero... or high power healing of a hero.

So... how to impliment? maybe if your have a "spell focus" type research which lets you pick between just the three: AOE, power or duration as a focus... and the relevant spells are boosted or spells unlocked after enough levels are reached. Very big spells could require lots of power, duration and AOE (volcanoes/mountain destruction/mass resurection/powerful Raise dead spells).

Perhaps you could have another aspect, cheap to research but lowers areas to increase your focus. "lust for power" which lowers AOE + duration but increases power of all direct damage spells or all spells. (different races could have different versions of this, with different areas it would affect and penalise. With specific races getting better bonuses, or bonuses in more areas, penalties in more or fewer... that sort of thing.)

I'd like you to choose for quick increases or gradual generalisations. You can go for an army buff focus, limited strength buffs that would really make a difference if you buff 100+ or 1000+ troops. or have a hero focus, high strength spells with no AOE and limited duration (you can recast easily on a single unit). Or a duration focus, eventually have every spell you know cast on every unit, low boosts and harder to cast during battle but great for long battles.

Perhaps you could increase every area equally to get the ultimate spells sooner, have volcanic battles but do half the damage with bolts of fire (power focus), raise the dead but can't heal every unit you own (AOE focus), raise land but can't make a unit fly forever and regenerate (duration focus).

Reply #4 Top

I was just thinking more about what you'd be getting out of this system. I think it'd be a rock-paper-scissors situation (with some twists) Even with identical fire magic sov's

Going full power with a hero or two and a small army should beat another small army with some elite troops (firebolts could pick them off or your lancelot with a flaming horse could do it), but lose to a large army from sheer force of numbers. (also should be on equal footing with another going full power as they could both 'doombolt' the others hero)

Going full Duration should allow you to have multiple elite troops with all the buffs cast (damage,defence,healing,flight whatever you have... in this case fireshield and fire arrows) and with a small army it should beat a significantly larger army, while those elite troops could be picked off by a power mage. Also should be equal to another duration mage as neither can easily kill the elite troops or the supporting army.

Going full AOE should allow you to have fewer losses with army vs army fights and would encourage fielding a larger army (possibly less equiped). This should result in a significant numbers advantage against a Power mage, which even with doombolts would lose to 1000 fire shielded and hasted farmers. Those farmers would suffer heavy losses against a smaller army with every spell cast on them. Imagine 1000 farmers with glowing pitchforks and tiny fireballs raining from the sky against a hundred archers with (weak) fireshields, (weak) regeneration and (weak) fire arrows.

 

Obviously the interesting point is when you get two areas... or draw the triangle like I just did and try to work out if what mixing would do... my first thought is that it would make your strengths stronger and your weaknesses greater... depending on many factors and which is limiting (army size, AOE, duration of battle, strength of troops, unlocking of spells and mana available) - a death mage with AOE and duration could poison or curse part of an enemy army and would benefit from longer battles against medium-large armies, with AOE and power they could blast them and would want short sharp fights against medium-small armies (mana intensive), Duration and power would suggest powerful elite troops or killing heroes/elite troops, stronger against small armies and much weaker against large armies or longer fights.

I'm sure all this has been talked about and included, I just hadn't really thought about it before... the how and why to impliment and what would it mean to strategies and counters. I'd like to shift my magic focus to counter a threat, being able to research a counter is only important if you think about what is an actual counter.