Demigod and DotA

Recipes are /not/ awesome. Recipes are an artificial way to (further) widen the gulf between new players and experienced players. In any case where memorization has such a direct effect on how well you play the game, something is badly wrong. Go read innociv's thread about item upgrading--that's how it ought to be done, if it's going to be done.

As for denying, no. Demigod is much less tactical than DotA. You shouldn't have to worry about dealing the killing blow to your own creeps--that's a tactical move, and with a character like Regulus would be an unacceptable level of micro required. With a character with early AoE, it'd be far too easy.

Been sitting the side line lately on this topic, mostly because this is beta 1.  Going to wait till Beta 2 comes out before passing any judgement.

Recipes are bad.

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/323546

Theres also a bunch of other threads like these with the same exact points made by the original poster (recipes, bounty, denying, size).

Demigod will have lots of strategic and tactical things like DotA has, but they'll be different ones.  Like trying not to overkill, the opposite of denying.

And yeah, you can't even compare them now.  This is mostly a bug and compatability test.

Recipes are a good way of making an item that is useul early game stay useful later on, they are not simply a wat of incerasing the gap between new and old players. Recipes only become a matter of memory at higher levels of play, in low levels of play it is not frowned apon to spend a minute or so deciding ur items.

Denying is one thing that would not carry over well any more, it would have been an early decision whether to include denying or not. At the early stages of development if denying had been included then the problems your suggesting wouldnt apply. Denying allows the early game to take more skill and allows players who can micro well to take advantage of that skill.

And yer i agree this is just the beta and im not trying to make a judgement on the game, these are just some initial observations.

Go read the thread innociv linked. It's ten times the idea recipes (which strike me as likely a WC3 engine limitation) ever could even aspire to be.

+1 to upgrades over recipies.

1. Recepies are bad for newbies.

2. Denying is not needed here. Last hitting still counts, you just last hit whole grps with 1-2 hits. But killing creeps is still important.

3. I'm also scared that 8 Demis are not enough for a retail version. And they say, making a new demigod costs alot, so we sure have to wait a few months till the first content-patch will come. I guess there wont be more than 2 really viable speccs for the most Demigods, maybe 3 on a few. This means we've 16-24 diffrent playstyle, but still only 8 models. Thats the point, which buggs me most right now.

4. Bounty for herokills should be a little bit higher imo. Some creeps give 150-660 gold.. and Demis only 100, thats kinda strange. I'd say 20 gold per lvl of the demigod would be ok.

So long, Aspartem

I like the low bounty and how winning the game matters more than farming players.

Plus there is no "OMFG FEEDER GET OUT BANNED" stuff, since you can't really feed when it's just 100 gold.

Well.. but it should reward the team. So give a nice amount of gold, like i suggest 15-25gold per lvl of the victim and split it over the team. So everyone profits while the opponent got a -1 player penalty.

So long, Aspartem 

Recepies are only good imo, but if they are used for a small group of items, usually game enders, this allows people to have to get certain items instead of just gold, and it just seems right in context, to make a god-like item, you dont buy it, you make it... but thats like only 2-4 items like that, and if someone messes up and bys the recepie only, let it still give them a small boost of what ever it offers, untill the other parts are gotten...

in items in general, we need more variety, seems most give you energy and energy regen, as well as some seem to be just the same, with different stats given... but this is BETA 1

Denying was actually an unintended side effect of the WC3 game itself, once people realized it actually took away XP, everyone did it till it was accepted in DotA itself, thus its not really a strat, but just a way for people who know what their doing to do better. That being said, to allow denying (kast hitting is a given) is just insane, you hav to keep track of a **** ton of HP, from yours, your creeps theirs, their creeps, aand you gotta constantly be looking at HP bars at all times, thats way to much Micro for a game based on strategy

larger maps have more lanes, so we need to see on that point...

bounties should be allowed I say, it gives you a reason more then just taking them outta the game, imo the most gold is gotten by gold ticks, not kills, it should be the other way around, in my humble opinion

If the downside to death isn't big enough it leads to people suiciding. People need to work hard to avoid death, not just because they suffer from a "time out" but because it hinders their team as a whole by making the other team more powerful.

Bounty on kills should be increased.

not getting to play sounds like a bigger disadvantage than naything else..

That inociv post is an awsome idea, props for that. But couldn't that kind of mechanic work in with recpies, with branches joining if you have two items you want to upgrade? I think that would work well, the biggest problem at the moment is that the items in the Beta are to heirarchial, the reason i suggested recipes was because they gave meaning to the lower heirarchy items. Recipes weren't bad for newbies, when i was a newb in dota i was fine with recipes.

I agree that bounties need to be increased, high bounties make it feel like a bigger achievment to kill an enemy demigod.

Upgrades pretty much replace recipies.  There are no "low heirarchy" items because they can all be upgraded.  It's basically like having seperate weapon, armor, and item sellers in rpgs.  Why the hell do you have to run around to all these different people, when one guy could have it all and be done with it?  Why do I have to run around buying items that I don't even want just to get one I do want, when I could just upgrade one single item.

How would a higher bounty on kills prevent you from playing? That makes no sense.

...
You missed hte point.

I was saying putting an enemy out of the game for a while is a much bigger bonus than getting gold for killing them.

We don't need feeding problems like DotA has.  Or snowball effects.

Read this:
http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/portals.php?show=news&news_id=406814

Maybe you should read this and stop comparing demigod's beta one stage to a wc3 custom map which has been updated over years. The gameplay will TOTALLY change when game is complete, and there will be other mechanics that add depth other than:

This isnt going to be a prettier versoin of DotA, its going to be Demigod

Simply enstate a variable bounty. The more kills someone gets in a row (or even just during the whole game) the more their bounty is worth. Hell it could be 100 + 100(or 200?) per enemy killed - 100 per times died with a minimum of 100. That way players who die a lot and don't get kills are only worth 100, and players who run in to get tons of kills are worth a lot when they die, but less and less if they keep getting killed.

Also has the effect of making the worst players get picked on less, giving them a chance to catch up.

I'm not against that.

As i said : Bounty should be  X*Lvl of the victim. X could be something between 15-25. And imo it should be splitted to everyone who stands around the victim. This is not necessary for high lvl play, but it encourages teamplay on casusal level - a big flaw in dota.

So long, Aspartem

I don't know how much I agree there..
If bounty scales by level it should be slight.  Not someone level 1 worth nothing, and someone level 15 is worth 500.

In my opinion people should be killing to win the game, not farming players at the spawn so they can get better equipment.

I prefer bounty scaling by player skill than by player level. A fearsome opponent who is decimating your team should be worth more than his buddy who's the same level but has trouble finding the movement keys.

By that "no two helmets" comment before, i don't mean to reduce item-combinations...so please can't we just rename them to like "accessory" or some such? The idea of using multiple helmets/breastplates bug me .. Also its a bit weird how we can use two helmets but not the exact same one? So their all enforced-unique? I guess thats needed so you don't buy tons of -25% cooldown items I guess .

-Drexion

you can only buy one of the same item.  Only 1 -25% cooldown helm.