This post is full of win, I totally agree with all that you said.

This game has the basic structure of DotA down, but is missing many, many of the smaller details that make DotA so challenging, fun, and competitive.

I played 5+ AoS maps.  And none of them come close to DOTA.  It's impressive to see games that are almost the same as DOTA yet so much is missing and thus they are rarely played.  DOTA is the only one played in eSport comps I believe.  Thus we know DOTA as a game works!  So we need these great discussions if we want this beautiful game Demigod to have any lastability.  I love DOTA but I wouldn't mind seeing something more visually up to date to dethrown it.  But I fear a lot of basic elements have taken a step backwards in Demigod at this point in time.

"But DotA is no TA." - aww jeez I don't know what to think about that.  I love them both.  TA has such sentimental value.  TA was so epic of its time.  DotA I just love playing its game style.  I'm a little over click fest spamming RTS's.  I love DOTA teamwork.  The way DOTA can fill you with such emotion when you die, is outstanding.  And this is off topic.

Can people please stop telling others to not discuss the gameplay of Demigod.  We all know it's a beta1 engine test.  You can compare Demigod to Pacman if you so desire.  Often the critique is negative but it doens't mean we don't love Demigod.

Regarding Map Size :

the Waterfallmap is a map with the Size 512x512 (10 Kilometers in Supreme Commander I think) but only uses about 160x200 for the actual playing field the rest is void. As the Supreme Commander Engine supports maps up to the size of 4096x4096, which is 64 times bigger than 512x512 and about 550 times bigger than the size of the actual used map size for the level, there is plenty of room for bigger maps. I doubt we will get a 4096x4096 map but surely bigger maps than the water fall map and map creators from the community can make maps bigger than Dota's are if there is demand for it.

Regarding Creeps being to weak:

There is alot of game mechanics missing still and there are indications that there will be some methods to improve your creeps, so naturally they will be too weak as long as that is missing

Regarding Last Hitting:

I doubt that will ever make it into Demigod, however we already have the opposite of it, avoiding to overkill Minions (for example you dealt 180 Damage to a minotaur it is alot better to switch target and let your minions doing the rest than wasting 160 damage with a second shot on the minotaur), when creeps get a bit better that will be more important ofc.

Regarding Recipes:

The Problem I always had with Recipes was that they actually seemed to decrease the variety instead of increasing it as combined items just were alot stronger than non-recipe items. Upgrading some items however might be cool, maybe by having sockets like in Diablo who do different things depending on the item type.

Regarding Leveling:

I think the Progression in early game is indeed a bit too fast but in mid and late game it's okay I think, but then I prefer 25-40 minutes matches over longer.

double post :/

Map Size:

We have one map, we know there are going to be more.  We know they are going to use a simple map in beta.  This isn't really an issue to bring up now.  They've already said in future maps taking over gold mines and flags to make your creeps stronger will be important, it just hasn't got here yet.  I see no use in complaining about something they said they are going to bring to the table.

On a side note here I'd like to point out it would be neat if we have more than just 2-side games.  What about 3v3v3 or 2v2v2 or 1v1v1, ect.  Those could add a great dimension to the game.

Heroes (But you actually talk more about creeps):

I agree that I would like to see stronger creeps.  Generals need to be ridicolous to make them challenging though.  Giants are fun once they start appearing, but thats not for awhile.  It's pretty stupid to see 20 units die in one spell only 20 minutes into the game.

Items:

Keep potion cds.  If they weren't there it would be more of a potion battle than thinking up a strategy about items.  If I can instantly pop a 2.5k potion and keep popping them, heroes won't die.  They are already hard to kill as it is agianst a smart player.

I do hope recipes show up.  From everything I've read this is going to be a STRATEGY game which means there is going to be a LEARNING CURVE.  Whats the fun in a game if any person can pick it up and be as good as a two-year player ina month because the game lacks strategic depth.  Learning skills/recipes/cooldowns/ect is part of any strategy game why should it be different here?  If they want a competitive game it needs depth.

Gold:

Yah I admit its weird right now.  With future capturing of gold mines and creeps hopefully getting stronger, money will play more of a factor instead of just waiting x amount of time.  I'd like to see gold loss and gain during deaths/kills of players to be increased a significant amount.  More like 1000+ for a kill 500- for a death or something.  Instead of just the 100+ it is now.  I don't think Demi-gods needs to be AS dependent as dota on last hitting.  Because then you get more of a skill game instead of a strategic one which seems to be more what Dota is turning into.  There should be a way to increase your gold consumption over time, but more capturable gold mines would probably solve the issue.  Like having to go out of your way to capture one on the map to give your team the advantage.

Leveling:

I think its fine.  Once you get about 9 it slows down and isn't too crazy.  In games of 4 or more human players the games lasted about an hour which I think is where a game should be.  I'm sure they'll get longer as people get better as well.  " In Demigod, all thats needed to win is to stay out, not die, kill the mob waves that come your way, grab a few nice items, farm some more, wait till level 15 or so, then own some towers, walk in, and win. B-o-r-i-n-g. Give me a challenge and a longer, harder game." Dota is about the same if you're playing a carry.  It'll take awhile for strategies to develop instead of just everyone learning the game.  People will learn to play roles on a team instead of all doing the same thing.

Performance:

My runs great.  I have a pretty nice computer though.  It runs smoother than a lot of games I've played that are retail.  Maybe you just need to reduce your settings or upgrade your drivers.

Final Thoughts:

You're calling for things they've announced they are going to do.  Generals boosting creep power, capturable gold mines to make gold more valuable, map size variations.  I'd say read more about what they've said they're going to do before telling them what they need to do, you'll find they are already going to do a lot of it.

-BlueFire

We are not at the point of testing gameplay, MAYBE what the devs are going to implement will be more fun than what you have to do in other games. Maybe instead of people worrying about last hitting they will remove it so people can worry more about pushing to a gold mine or actual assaulting the enemy. This game is nowhere near the stage to be testing for gameplay. If you start asking the devs to change things from thier original plan now even before you know what they are doing you can overload the game and make it drive away new players (A problem DotA has had ever since TDA). Let the devs implement thier gameplay mechanics and then see what can be improved on instead of telling them an incomplete game is imcomplete.

I dont want a DotA, and the game designers definately dont want a DotA. They have specifially said they dont want a dota...The ONLY similarity that they want is the genre...If you want a DotA, play wc3,

And like was said previously, most of the features you want/are complaining about are going to be put in. This is an engine test only....balance and depth is not meant to play a part in this beta

There is more than one FPS that are "eSports" without being copies of one another.

Demigod can be a highly competitive game without copying DotA.

Is it highly competitive now?  Definitely not, but it's going to become more-so.

Maps:

There will be more maps.  As said, the engine supports maps many times the size of the current map used.  I think they just gave us a basic little map to use in Beta 1 as part of the whole "dumbing it down" thing.  The map itself is not actually bad, its just smaller than DotA's one map.  Demigod, however, will have more than one map, which lets them have smaller maps without sacrificing the epic option of larger maps.

Heroes:

I think they might be a little strong, but its not a huge issue.  Once we get the ability to enhance creeps one way or another, it should be less of a problem.

Items:

Recipes are bad.  They are extremely difficult to figure out (which turns away new players) and imo they actually decrease the possible options for the late game.  There are a lot of different recipes, but in reality, most heroes only have one or two viable options to work toward.

Innociv posted an item upgrade system in the suggestions board, and I think that is the best way to do it.  It reduces the initial confusion by actually decreasing the amount of items, yet at the same time provides a straightforward way to make items gain power as the game progresses.  You still have to plan in advance as different items will allow for different boosts later on, but the initial options are more user friendly.  Since the boosts would naturally reflect the base stats of the item (at least to an extent), you don't really have to research to prepare for the late game.  This makes it easy to pick up, while still leaving advanced item paths for people who bother studying these things.  It also results in a huge amount of late game item variety, as you start with one of a few basic items and customize it for the late game, instead of buying a specific stat boosting early item and turning it into one of a few specific late game items.

Please, no recipes.

Healing potions need a cooldown.  Its already very annoying when someone stops for a second and regains all their health, the last thing we need is for them to be able to do it as often as they want.  It would quickly turn the game into a battle of whoever has the most potions.

Gold:

Gold mines will be on most maps.  This will solve most of your problems.

As for last hitting and denying...  Well, earlier in your post you talked about how Demigod is looking like a twitch fest.  Yet, when you think about it, DotA is a huge twitch fest as it requires you to always manually retarget to different creeps so you can beat our your teammates and steal their kills.  Then you turn around and get the last hit on your own creeps so enemy Heroes don't get the exp.  You call Demigod a twitch fest?

Last hitting and denying are compleatly unnecessary.  I don't think either truely adds to the game.  In fact, I think it detracts from the game by building unnecessary hostility between team members.  (There's enough kill stealing in FPS's, the last thing we need is for it to start spilling over into other generas, and worse, encourage it.)  Plus, this discourages team based anti-creep attacks.  If they ever make creeps stronger, then last hitting will discourage team based combos designed to quickly take out a wave.  If they don't make creeps stronger, then all the exp goes to the first guy who casts some kind of AoE spell.  Its a no-win situation.

Leveling:

I don't really see the problem.  You get the first few levels fast, which is nice as it lets you unlock a few basic abilities.  Once you get past the first few levels though, leveling is actually pretty slow.  I think it works.

Also, you make it sound like standing in the field farming creeps without getting smited is easy.  Against real people, its not such an easy task.  I think this is mostly an issue about the specific map.  Other maps will have strategic points which will greatly affect the flow of the game.  Even in the map we have, losing the middle flag in the late game or losing a portal at any time will result in your quick demise.  Losing a portal cuts your creeps in half (and lets enemy creeps walk straight into your base past most of your defenses), while holding the war idol late game almost doubles the amount of units you have on the field.  There's a bit more to it than "get to level 15, walk in, win."  You again have to remember that real people will also be at level 15...

Your Final Notes:

You are asking for a DotA clone.  If this was an FPS, then would you want a Halo clone?  If you think about it, Halo was a very successful game.  Why doesn't everybody just copy Halo because we know that exact formula works?  (Yes I know Halo wasn't the first, I'm just picking an example here.)  What if every RTS was exactly like Tiberium Dawn?  We don't want a DotA clone.  DotA was the first of its kind, but it won't be the last.  If we stopped at the Pong formula, we would have missed out on tons of stuff.

Theres actually gold miens on the actual map.

They are linked to the flag which is also linked to the portals

And in later releases they should be linked to strategic points in combat sections of the maps.

Maybe.  They'd need to move those towers up further forward with them, then.  I thought of that.

But it's a very small map.

On bigger maps i'd definitely like to see the flags for portals a bit closer to the center with towers around.

Why not leave some out there to fight over? It would make for an interesting choice if you're given a variety of points that all give you a different bonus. Is the added income worth having a lower war level than your opponent? Gold would make a good strategic objective, because it would really reward good strategy to gain more income.

I expect we'll see stuff like this in subsequent betas, given Frogboy's posts about putting strategic bits on the map.

-map is way too small, cannot gank or strategize attacks

I would disagree. It's a 3v3 map, it's supposed to be small.

-heroes are way too strong, mobs are never a challenge

Agree somewhat. The little guys should be made a bit stronger and should yield a bit more gold.
-lack of recipes...nuff said

I bet they'll come soon enough.
-drinking potions is a channeling action

This is actually not bad. This way, done right, can mess up any Demigod's day.

-uber powerful heroes make gold too easy to get

You already said that.
-no need to last hit since heroes overpowered

You already said that.
-no way to deny since heroes overpowered

Already said... Why deny anyway? The gold reward isn't the most important thing in getting a tower down anyway.
-levelling is too fast and easy

Actually it's not. Most games I've played don't last enough to hit level 25.

At the same time, dont want 10 strategic points for each team.

Then you lose focus on which ones to get and people would probably end up ignoring them then becasue they dont want to stand around to capture them.

also about creep stats i'd like to make some advertisment for me http://forums.demigodthegame.com/323824  Everything needful listed here.

Only the first guys + angels are usless the rest is pretty decent. And it's ok. The ordonariy soldier shouldnt be a problem for a demigod.. even in masses. Towers need some more beef, and maybe but just maybe the small soldierboys to.. but only a little more dmg, make them glascannons which are an annoyance if not killed, but nothing to important.

So long, Aspartem