Global Climate Change

Rush's Morning Update: Change!

from JoeUser Forums
A few weeks ago, an AP story detailed a discovery in Antarctica. Scientists studying the ice came across the remnants of moss on a valley floor. Further study revealed the remains of tiny crustaceans, insects, and pollen from beech trees and other plant life.

The scientific explanation given for this was that last 50 million years, the earth has been cooling. About 14 million years ago, the climate was different in Antarctica. It was warmer than today – able to support life.

Let's turn to another climate. This week, AP released another item. A University of Chicago team was searching for dinosaur bones in Africa, in the barren Sahara Desert. Guess what they found? Human remains, laid to rest on a bed of flowers. Earlier digs have uncovered a graveyard near what once was a lake. A few thousand years ago there were large fish, crocodiles -- and humans were out hunting for breakfast and dinner with harpoons! Now, it's just a desert.

Now, all of this climate activity took place long before the existence of cars, light bulbs, plastic bags, electricity plants, Big Oil, Big Coal. And yet the climate was changing, as it has changed since the earth was created. The climate was changing long before the environmentalist wackos started scaring and blaming America with horror tales of manmade global warming. And the climate will keep changing no matter what human beings do! We can't cause it; we can't stop it -- and that's change you can believe in.
31,979 views 47 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
As I have written a lot about global climate change and the hoax that goes with it. I found this little tidbit. I asked myself why is it that we are so worried about global warming/ cooling/ change whatever, why is it that man is singled out as the bad guy?

Then I understood, man is the bad guy because it is the only way to slow down America. The Kyoto accords were designed to stop America from prospering while allowing our enemies to continue on polluting. It is not saving the planet it is fostering communism, socialism, and fascism. These are the same arguments used during the cold war to help Soviet Russia. Things like America should take the lead and disarm. Now it America should take the lead and stop growing and prospering.

Save the Earth is a hoax. The earth does not even know we are here and we can’t save it or hurt it.

Prove me wrong.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
We can't cause it; we can't stop it --
End of quote


What scares me is in the trying, we will do more damage to man's environment (not the earth's as it will abide) in the process.

and that's change you can believe in.
End of quote


And you can take that to the bank! ;)
Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

More and more scientists are leaving the Global Climate Change ship as it sinks. Rats deserting a sinking ship. None will stand up and say they were wrong but none are supporting the man made crap they spewed. It is left to the true believers to carry the torch of ignorance.

Reply #4 from PolMach Forums Top

Perhaps we should have a government bail out for the climatologists!  So what if these creaps lied to us for years so they can get grant money from the old fools in Washington.  These poor scientists will find themselves out of work soon, and we can't just sit by and let them starve!;)

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

Scientists studying the ice came across the remnants of moss on a valley floor. Further study revealed the remains of tiny crustaceans, insects, and pollen from beech trees and other plant life.
End of quote

A few thousand years ago there were large fish, crocodiles -- and humans were out hunting for breakfast and dinner with harpoons! Now, it's just a desert.
End of quote

A few thousand years?  I think the correct number of years would be in the hundreds of thousands or millions.  Anywho, it's not so much climate change as plate tectonics in those cases.  There were many shallow seas a few million years ago...in fact, where I'm sitting right now was underwater back in the day as evidenced by all these little fossils everywhere.

~Zoo

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Actually the human remains found in the Sahara date from about 5,000 years ago. At that time that area was lush and green.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top

Actually the human remains found in the Sahara date from about 5,000 years ago. At that time that area was lush and green.
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Lush and green a few thousand years ago, I can go with.  However, Anartica being a lush paradise has a considerable amount to do with plate tectonics...rather than just random warming and cooling.

Also, I should clarify that when I said hundreds of thousands and millions of years I wasn't talking about the human remains.  We weren't around then. :P

~Zoo

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

A few thousand years? I think the correct number of years would be in the hundreds of thousands or millions.
End of quote

Sorry the number is between ten and 12 thousand years ago that the Sahara was covered with grass. 4 thousand years ago it was turning into a desert, global warming did it, haven’t you heard?

I see where you get that figure, there have been several eras of warming and cooling the one I am talking about here was 5000 years ago. The first article was from 50 million years ago the second article was from 5000 years ago. I can see why you might have been confused.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Lush and green a few thousand years ago, I can go with. However, Anartica being a lush paradise has a considerable amount to do with plate tectonics...rather than just random warming and cooling.
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It is not random it is cyclic, but you are correct it does have a lot to do with plate tectonics. The plates shifting caused the last big ice age that lasted 2 million years or more, contributing to this was the orbit of the Earth as it was elliptical giving the Earth more time away from the sun adding to the cooing, as well as a less warm sun and low sun spot activity. Put it all together and you have a ball of ice two to three miles thick surrounding the planet. As the plates continued to shift and the volcanic activity putting greenhouse gases up helped warm the Earth as the orbit stabilized, the Sun expanded, and in only a half a million years the earth was lush and green over most of the planet. As the Sun beat down on the planet the mostly water covered planet evaporation happened big time causing the largest greenhouse gas, water vapor, the snows came and accumulated on the poles reducing the water level until most of what we know as the Earth is today.

 

When I lived in south Florida I was doing some work in my yard and found my house was build on a coral reef. My house was 3 miles from the ocean. So we had a lot of water to recede before we ended up with what we have now. To expect this to remain static is foolish. The land will be under water again and to blame man for it is stupid.

 

Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top

We weren't around then.
End of quote

Damn!  That kills my sci-fi book. ;)

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

we can't stop it
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[quote quoting="post"]

The objective is not to stop it. The objective is to see if we can slow it down so that changes in climate are more manageable. There is no need to wonder if trying will screw up the economy. A few corrupt businessmen, politicians, and wall st. have already accomplished that.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

A few corrupt businessmen, politicians, and wall st. have already accomplished that.
End of quote

Yea, those democrat politicans really did a number on Dannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

The objective is to see if we can slow it down so that changes in climate are more manageable.
End of quote

You can’t be serious! There is not one shred of proof that man is more than a contributing factor when it comes to climate change. We can’t slow it down because we don’t do enough to cause any real change one way or another. The supposed man made global warming has stopped. All because the Sun stopped producing spots meaning that we are going to a cooling trend, the last ten years the climate is cooling and we have not done any of the things that the idiots said we needed to do to stop the warming. The average global temperature has dropped and is projected to drop 2 full degrees over the next 20 years. Contrast that with the global warming proponents that show that man’s contribution is 0.64 degrees over the next 100 years. Nature wiped that out last year without man’s help in any way. You have been duped into believing the lies that you can make a difference it the global climate.

 

Even if, and that is a huge IF, we can affect real change in the global temperature then anything we do to slow the warming will only contribute to the cooling trend we are in meaning we will only make the cooling worse causing colder winters and cooler summers reducing our crop production, meaning less food for us all.

 

This is just like the global cooling of the 70’s if we did what the experts said we should do back then we would have made the warming trend we were in worse.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

The supposed man made global warming has stopped. All because the Sun stopped producing spots
End of quote

That is untrue!  I have it on the best of authority (from my mother's brother's wife's son's cousin no less) that Man made CO2 causes SunSpots!

After all, have you seen my great Aunt's hands lately? ;)

(And dont try to tell me those are age spots!  The sun caused them so they are sun spots!)

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

All because the Sun stopped producing spots meaning that we are going to a cooling trend
End of quote

The sun goes through an approx 11-year cycle as far as sunspots are concerned. The last cycle which ends in an ebb has just recently ended. The first sunspot of the newest cycle appeared on Jan 4,2008. In approximately 5 years the current cycle will peak and you will see how wrong you are in trying to base your opinion on this type of information.

Opinions are fine but if you wish to call those with opposing views idiots you might want to use information backing up what you say that isnt so easily disproved.

In any case the sunspot cycle does have an effect on global temperature. And the fact that the ebb of the last cycle which was longer than usual does question whether it marks the start of a change in the heating/warming trend because it puts into question whether the sunspot cycle is heading towards a minimum in a longer less cyclical cycle. Last years lower global temp was predicted by many climatologists because the start of the new sunspot cycle hadnt yet occured and was initially predicted to occur in 2006. In all only time will tell.  

There is not one shred of proof that man is more than a contributing factor when it comes to climate change. We can’t slow it down because we don’t do enough to cause any real change one way or another
End of quote

It doesnt matter whether man is a greater contributing or not, or for that matter whether man has contributed to the problem at all. Man is quite capable of solving problems that they dont cause. Whether we can correctly address this one is questionable but not worth ignoring. It does not mean people should not try to find possible solutions or try to predict how and why climate will change so that populations can plan ahead for what can be expected. My views on issues such as energy policy are not are not based on taking a side in the climate change debate. They are more closely related to issues of foreign policy, public health and economic factors.

So if we had taken steps back in the 70's where exactly would we be? We could very possibly have less of a reliance on foreign oil and oil altogether. Instead we are faced with much the same situation as well as a number of other problems to try to solve.

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

It doesnt matter whether man is a greater contributing or not, or for that matter whether man has contributed to the problem at all. Man is quite capable of solving problems that they dont cause.
End of quote

Not when he does not know the cause or the solution!  Operating on a perfectly healthy man with an upset stomach is not a solution.  Yet that is what you would have us do.  And sometimes the patient croaks.  Great way to treat a patient.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

not when he does not know the cause or the solution!
End of quote

Youre right we do not know all the causes. Or how trying to affect change to a known cause will affect other factors. We do know however that our reliance on foreign oil is a national security and economic issue. We do know that we cannot increase domestic drilling enough to get rid of our reliance on foreign oil. We do know that the burning of fossil fuels causes health problems. We do know that certain fossil fuels cause a higher risk to certain health problems than others do. And I do know that all the various choices amongst energy sources have a huge impact on the workers as well as the states associated with those industries.

Yet that is what you would have us do.
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You simply have no clue as to what I do and do not agree with, or more importantly my opinions on how I think certain things can or should be done. Of that I am sure. You simply assume that I support the views and policies of others associated with a party that is opposite of your views when in fact I support neither of the 2 major parties particularly when it comes the federal government. But that is the problem with the 2 party system we have....If ur not 100% with us you must be 100% against us.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

If ur not 100% with us you must be 100% against us.
End of quote

Right, which is why I am against the liberal president we currently have and will be against the liberal president we are going to have next. I support our president because he is our president, just as I supported the last president. I did not like either one for the same reason. I am a conservative and they are not. The last conservative president this nation had was Ronald Reagan, before him was John Kennedy. It does not matter to what party you belong, I still vote for the best person for our nation. If all you see is a two party system then you are blind to what is going on politically in this country.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

Predicting and planning for climate changes is perfectly reasonable.

Attempting to alter natural climate cycles is tantamount to global suicide. Mankind should not attempt to alter natural planetary cycles in any way. We simply do not have the knowledge or wisdom, as a species, to do so in any positive way. It will only result in greater disaster. Our track record bears this out. Any time we have meddled with the natural way of things it goes horribly wrong.

Conserving resources and reducing pollutants are very good things that we should persue, but not if it means outright lies in an attempt to do them. The whole man-made global warming thing is a huge lie that far too many people are still telling and others are buying. It's become a multi-billion dollar business and there are those who will defend it to the death. Even faced with the fact that the planet has been cooling for the last decade these people simply deny the facts, change their lies, and continue their campaign of deceit at the expense of the people.

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

MM What you say has merit, is well thought out and I totally agree. Thanks

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

Conserving resources and reducing pollutants are very good things that we should persue, but not if it means outright lies in an attempt to do them.
End of quote

 

Show me a more comprehensive and reliable source than this:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2007/ and you might have 2 feet to stand on.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

If all you see is a two party system then you are blind to what is going on politically in this country.
End of quote

Most people who call our sytem a 2 party system are in general simply referring to the fact the there are 2 extremely dominent parties amongst others.

 

BTW You quoted something that I stated about anothers comment not yours. Maybe you ought to take note of those types of things before you get so defensive.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

Attempting to alter natural climate cycles is tantamount to global suicide
End of quote

There is nothing that I know of the comes even close to what might be considered as attempting to change a natural climate cycle. Although Im sure theres some crap like that to be found on the internet somewhere.

 

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

There are four major agencies that record and report on global temperatures.  I find it interesting that one of the four report cooling two of them report only very slight change, basically a flattening, over the past ten years. One must wonder how it is that one of the four somehow reports radically different results compared to the other three.

 

 

 

How can one explain such a huge difference in the report of one agency?  It couldn't be data manipulation or misrepresentation now could it? Three quarters of the agencies doing this reporting disagree with the one cited in this thread. Pretty poor odds for that one, wouldn't you think? All four are considered to be quite credible.

For all practical purposes, these measurements show a pretty flat average temperature over the past ten years, with the last year showing a very sharp drop. Compared to the previous 30 years this is a strong indication of the start of a moderate cooling trend.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Sorry I want a link or source so that I can follow the trail myself.....I know how to look for the classic misinformation websites so make sure they're valid. In particular I want to be able to read a prognosis of the research.