Any successful Capital Ship lovers out there?

from Sins Forums
I love capital ships, but using them as my main fleet only works against the AI who can be intimidated by static defenses. I played my first MP game the other day knowing that I would probably lose, but I did NOT expect to see and lose to 80+ illuminators. I thought I was doing pretty well having 5 capital ships out but they were absolutely worthless against this force (plus I was TEC, who is said to have weaker cap ship abilities).
 
The problem I suppose is all the resources to upgrade cap ship limit and the logistics limit (plus the cost of higher logistics levels) before even buying the cap ships, then they are expensive on their own. The DPS just never seemed to kill anything (found out later about armor types). With cap ships it's all about abilities, but I found the TEC abilities to be pretty weak; Advent seemed a bit better in this regard. I had strong economy and research but was amazed at how much the frigate spam hurts. They can also outrun my cap ship fleet, so I couldn't keep up. Damn.
 
Is there anyone out there who makes heavy use of cap ships successfully, even in smaller games? I understand they are best with other ship types, but how can I wield them more effectively?
strategy
5,229 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
Ok, understand that Advent capital ships are in a league of their own. They all work together and syngergize so much that Vasari and TEC caps just don't compare, although unfortunately it sounds like you were victim of an Illum spammer. Pure Illum spammers unfortunately aren't great players, they just spam the best ship in the game.

Capital ships are not meant to be the bulk of your forces, but rather to be a support ship for your fleet. TEC caps are rather....direct in their function.

To utilize caps properly, a good rule of thumb is that if you're at tier 2 population cap, you should have either tier 1 or tier 2 teched for capital ship crew slots, depending on how much you like caps. If you're at tier 3, then tier 2 or tier 3 capital ship slots.

Capital ships need a fleet to support them, and capital ships are truly great brutes that support the fleet.

I don't think they were outrunning ur cap fleet. All capital ships have speed of 600. The Akkan (colonizer) has a speed of 475, so yes, that one will never keep up. Illums have a speed of 500. That's the numbers there, though I don't know if they've been changed at any point.

In terms of each TEC cap, the Kol is meant to be a bastion, an absolute rock in the fleet. The same goes for the Marza to an extent. Obviously, this ship's for sieging, though the nuclear warhead is useful when aimed at clusters of enemies.

The Dunov is invaluable if you want a bunch of TEC caps. This cap can restore shields on ur caps. Every ability on this ship is a beaut. 2 of these can prolong the lifespan of your caps greatly.

The Sova a great damage dealer. It has itself, which is actually kinda weak for a cap, but then it has missile turret and squadrons of fighters/bombers. The damage output is actually quite great. Embargo is best used in rushes.

The Akkan has coloinize which will always help you expand much quicker early. Armistice, if you reach level 6, is an ability that keeps getting mixed reviews, but I still insist there's ways this ability kicks ass. The ion bolt is great early on. Speaking specifically in ur case, I'm guessing the Illums had a mothership accompanying them? ( It was either casting Malice or Shield Regen, kinda looks like a space slug)

If you aim the ion bolt at the enemy cap right as it fires whatever ability it's using, you can stop it with ion bolt. So lovely, and it brings an enemy advent fleet on par with you.










Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Capital ships in sins are not 'main battle units' so to speak - they are horribly in inefficient at dps and life compared to equal population cost in frigates.

The real reason to build them is the abilities they have, which are generally very powerful. This means you need to use small numbers of well managed capitals so they level up faster escorted by large fleets of frigates and cruisers (these are your main battle units).

An all capital, or very heavy capital ship fleet just won't work very well in comparison. You can beat the computer, but only because the computer is very dumb.
Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
I don't think they were outrunning ur cap fleet. All capital ships have speed of 600. The Akkan (colonizer) has a speed of 475, so yes, that one will never keep up. Illums have a speed of 500. That's the numbers there, though I don't know if they've been changed at any point.
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Capital ships, with the exception of colony caps, move at 525. Illums are a little slower at 500, but they turn faster and have 50% more acceleration, so I can see why someone would perceive them as being faster and hard to catch with a capital.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Ah, thanks for the catch Cykur. It's odd though that we're discussing a cap chasing down Illuminators, not the other way around  :LOL: 
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
That would make a good screenshot....a half dozen caps chasing down an Illuminator. We can title it: "Newbie Fantasy"
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
There pros and cons to ever type of ship and faction. Ever one runs over the pro, that capital ship are abilitie powerhouse, but do not note that some of the other special abilities, do not effect them. Case and point, all capital ship are note effected by the area disable of the Subverter's distortion field. This means why your HC and missile frigates are defenseless, you battleships keep on fighting. The only disable able that work against capital ships, are those of other capital ship.

Also when you look at the dps/cost(of any thing), or hp(armor and shields if you want)/cost, you must also take into account how the ables for different levels effect them. The Devastator power surage at level 6, allows the Pulse Beam weapons to do a dps of about 6 HC by ITSELF. More then the dps/cost of the HC when you don't take power surage into account.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
The fleet did have a mothership, but even with 1 of each cap ship focus firing I didn't kill it in time. It really synergizes with a swarm of Illums. In other experiences, I've fought the Visari where they kept healing 500 hull damage instantly over and over (whichever cap ship I focus fired on); I haven't found out what ability does this, but it looks graphically like a halo around the healed ship. Now I understand all those arguements about repair bays being a major advantage.

It's just that my primary fun in this game is not spamming units like I have seen others do, but I feel forced to respond in kind. I would rather strike a balance using research and economy heavily, but in small maps this is not usually effective. However, large maps are... time consuming lol, though fun and epic, but I haven't mastered "fast expansion" in terms of skipping certain things to go for the juicy planets. It's about establishing high value quickly, not fussing over every asteroid. Plus, grabbing an ice planet early is essential for the crystal boost (I am always waiting on crystal to proceed with upgrades). In a small map, expanding too quickly can really screw things up as you waste time trying to hold an asset that's too far out. I'd better just practice my beginning game more I suppose.

Thanks guys for the tips. I suspect if I had dumped the upgrade resources (4 cap ship upgrades, research, and others) into more small ships, I would have had a mobile force to at least hold them off for a bit, since my economy was #1 or #2 most of the game. Keeping track of whether you are the biggest military or economy is actually rather important to preventing overwhelming forces coming at you or falling behind later.