PATCH1.03 MARKET SOLUTION FOR DEVS

Players please read and reply

Ok guys so I know the post is long but most of you will get the jist of it after the fist half. To the devs, please read this and take it into consideration. To the players please read and let the devs know whether or not you think this is a good idea. IF NOT then please for the love of God, point out why so that they know what it is we're thinking here.

*Disclaimer at bottom*

1: Impose 10 second static trade period at beginning of games. This gives everyone the opportunity to trade fairly at the beginning.
  - also instead of increasing the market value of traded goods by 1.02's standards just lower it a little to make large player games managable in the amrket without hevly changing the gameplay on smaller maps.

                     AND

2: Create a bracket market system. Make the market much more volatile! I mean excessively so. If people keep buying then skyrocket the price. 1.02 Market max was 1600 for the hotfix make it 3000! I mean this seriously. Do it by implementing a ladder market strategy. Whereby after a certain amount of a resource has been purchased on the market the price makes a sharp jump to a next bracket. For example.

  *SUMMARY*
 
 Player A TEC      Credit Driven
 Player B Vasari   Resrouce Driven

 Bracket system + market flucutation.

 Total credit investment into market resource determines bracket value.
3000-7500credits = 1st bracket, 7500-12000 credits = 2nd bracket, 12000 = 3rd bracket

  1st Bracket     2nd Bracket     3 bracket      etc... etc...
 300cr 4 100res  600cr = 100res  900cr = 100res 
 100res 4 200cr  100res 4 400cr  100res 4 600cr

NOW... The brackets = the overarching mechanism of market fairness. As long as trading stays within a bracket the market will fluctuate up and down as it does in patch 1.03, but as soon as it passes the thresh hold into another bracket the price instantly increases by x amount. This can be done by simple makig the value jump a certain value per total investment in the market.

When ever a player sells resources, the credits he recieves is SUBTRACTED from the market total. Thereby allowing the market to be truly responsive to supply and demand while not allowing crediuts to become the dominant force. The system works in all types of environments as long as the rbackets are correctly determined duyring programming and testing. 4FFA will see less trading then a 10FFA but the wonderful thing about this system is that the increases are much less per bracket at lower levels then at higher levels. For example a bracket 5 to 6 jump would mean a differnce between 2K per 100 Res to 3K per 100 res or maybe evcen more! I think this is an absolutly imperative market startegy.


*RANT*

  300 for 100 Metal --> players A, B, C all buy a 300 metal. The market starts fluctuating a little bit more volatily then 1.03 but not at all ridiculous to 1.02 (keep in mind your new market mechanism is MUCH better then the old one.)
  So at this point we have a total of 2700 total credits invested by all players for metal. As soon as it crosses 3000 the price of metal stops fluctuating from whatever it is you currently have it set for and INSTANTLY jumps to 600 for 100.
  This mechanim extends perfectly for resource selling as well. The more total invested money the more rsources are worth. Much more per bracket. Think of it like tax brackets etc. To lower the INSTANT change we saw occure from 3:1 --> 6:1 back to 3:1 what would NEED to happen is for someone (Vasari!!!) to sell their resources for that nice chunk of change!!! The amount given to the player in exchange for the resrouce is subtracted from the total creds invested into buying thus allowing the market to fluctuate betweeen brackets effectively and rapidly.

I think you shoyuld just straigh up implement this plan. It works. Most importantly I think out of all the possible solutions it will maintain the balance better. TEC will not be allowed to exploit the market like they can now, other races can now actually fight back with their lack of credit building. TEC players will now HAVE to control their spending, forcing them to immerse themselves deeper into resource gathering as well as trade. Because buying all your resources will only give your opponents the advantage of making more money at higher brackets. OMG this is so amazing. This will add considerable gameplay value to the 4X aspect of the game. If you took the time to read this please post your responses. If you agree please say so!!! The devs need to hear our opinions if they're gonna fix this!!!!

 I love the game SD, annd IC. Please don't think of this as another person just posting their gripes about the latest patch. Games take years to perfect and so far you guys are doing exactly what it takes to make it happen by listening to the players. Again, I love the game and the work you're putting into this, but I really feel strongly about this market system. I am positive it is the best solution to gaming markets as large as the one in SoaSE. Thanks  for reading.

21,806 views 9 replies
Reply #1 Top
sorry... on the bracket dynamics I had meant for the 300cr 4 100 rs to be in bracket zero (0-3000cr)then 600cr 2 100rs in bracket 1 (3000-7500) etc. Also the increase in resource price and value shouldn't increase by 200 on each bracket. It should be like this.


Bracket 1 --> Bracket 2 --> Bracket 3 --> Bracket 4 --> Bracket 5 --> Bracket 6
+300 cr/rs --> 650 cr/rs --> 1000 cr/rs --> 1600 cr/rs --> 2500 cr/rs --> 3500 cr/rs
Reply #2 Top
Lolaments... It sucks when my posts are forgotten :(
Reply #3 Top
Bracket 0 --> Bracket 1 --> Bracket 2 --> Bracket 3 --> Bracket 4 --> Bracket 5
+300 cr/rs --> 650 cr/rs --> 1000 cr/rs --> 1600 cr/rs --> 2500 cr/rs --> 3500 cr/rs
Reply #5 Top
No.
It hasn't yet been 24 hours. Then TEC was weakened considerably when LRMS were nerfed. I haven't had any problems with resource purchasing using advent and vasari, so, whatever. Maybe I don't have as much surplus, but my research and unit building is still steady.
Reply #6 Top
No.It hasn't yet been 24 hours. Then TEC was weakened considerably when LRMS were nerfed. I haven't had any problems with resource purchasing using advent and vasari, so, whatever. Maybe I don't have as much surplus, but my research and unit building is still steady.
End of quote

Uhm what?

LRM: 10% credit increase, 11% metal, 25% crystal
illum: 8.57% credit, 20% metal, 37.5% crystal
Assailant: 11.1% credit, 18% metal, 28.5% crystal

javs where nerfed the least.
Javs used to cost 350/40/20. Now 375/45/25.
Illums used to cost 350/50/40 now they are 380/60/55

You think 5 metal, crystal, and 25 creds matters much for javs? It really doesn't. But that 15 crystal is a pretty big deal for illums which where the weakest lrm(/l)

Tec can make MORE javs now with how the black market is credit centric and buying resources is so cheap.
Assailants and illums did get nerfed pretty hard(though illums didn't need it..)javs have been buffed. Which is funny because tec's jav lrm was the best of them all.
Reply #7 Top
I think TarlSS is a TEC lover ;) Just kidding man. Yea it's only been 24 hours but I have no life and am unfortunate enough to live with an economist (slits wrists). We actually got into a great discussion over the basic premise of in game economic markets and what actually works in an RTS system vs a 4X system. It was great because we had to come up wth something that fits in between, which is what I wrote above. In game economics is the greatest factor in strategy and victory, so when a game decides to have an in game economy that revolves around real time live market simulation it becomes essential to integrate real life economic market dynamics with RTS market dynamics. (4X games are really similar to real life conditions, when put into an economic prespective) And an RTS requires balance and of course speed. So the market system has to be obviously "gamed up". Alright so I completly digressed from what I ws gonna say... ARE YOU HIGH!!?!?? Even if TEC was counterbalanced (which I don't think) the market dynamics are now skewed towards trade ports instead of trade ports and rrefineries. Essentially rendering a service unusable. I wouldn't have a problem with that if the three races were designed with trade port credit income as their primary economic linchpin... but they weren't.

Keep up the pwn work IC/SD I got nothing but love for all the work you put into this. Good luck with 1.04 :)
Reply #8 Top
Wow. Interesting post Yilmael. Imagine how wild things would get it the devs ever added more resources to the market? :)

Personally, I'd like to see the addition of food (Organics?) as a commodity and some kind of energy source like oil thrown in too. Or perhaps something like Spice from Dune. How cool would that be?
Reply #9 Top
How about a real supply to deal with? Each game starts out with x amount of crystal/metal available at a base market rate with x amount of regeneration per second, and every time someone buys resources, it ups the cost due to the increase in demand over a limited supply? When cost goes up due to low supply, players can sell their excess (if they have any) to make a profit until demand decreases or supply increases. And if players manage to exceed the supply...well, tough, because prices are going to sky rocket and there won't be any left to buy. A player could make a small fortune in selling their excess resources if they managed to somehow corner a market.

Would require a bit of extra programming to work out that, as well as taking average resource purchases versus the current supply versus the regeneration rate to calculate when supply will be exceeded at the current rate, and increase the price until average purchases over time reach a point where supply will never be exceeded. I guess if IC could write a program like that they wouldn't be making video games, they would be economists.

Just a random idea.

I would like to see *a lot* more resources to deal with as well, and each resource being useful for particular things. Credits, metal and uranium for ships, and Credits, Metal and Oil maybe for orbitals. Food and credits for planetary upgrades. Just an idea.