STOP WHINING!!! 1.03 is great

Of course the devs should be congradulated for their hard work. I don't think anyone on the board feels resentment to Stardock/Ironclad. They've been excellent developers who really care about the community and supporting the game.

That said, in order to have strategy/play the game, it needs to be balanced. Many of the "complaints" are valid concerns that some of the fixes were for the worse. Some (for example the chat problem) outright broke an essential gameplay piece.

I approve of this thread. However, balancing could be better.

Yeah need more balancing work. They should talk to the higher level players about it, not reactor to newbie whine threads.

Wow. The patch just came out today, and already people have fount balance issues? You guys work fast.....

Personally, I believe great devs listen to everyone's experience equally and then balance that with their own ideals in order to keep the product exactly where it should be!

Remember SD and IC are players of this game as well. In order for this game to not become another "game revised for this group......or that group", they need to stay within the realm of their ideals.


@ SD/IC

To thine selves stay true!  



the Monk

It seems to me that the issues related to balance are quite moddable. Why don't people create mods to suit their taste and play those?

It is impossible to balance this game for the average fan and the pro at the same time.

Javaslinger

The game isn't balanced for pros either. They are balancing the game around single player, that is, not at all.

Thanks Smackmackerson!  These posts are a rare pleasure and do motivate us as much as any criticism

I was under the impression that it is either balanced or it's not. I didn't think there were separate tiers for different types of gamers...

MMORPGs are the only games I know of that have to split their balance and that's only if the devs actually care about both PvP and PvE.

1.03 was nice, yes. But the chat system, I think, is widely agreed to be a step back. =P

Sorry for my rant earlier. I've just enjoyed an unusually positive forum since I purchased the game and tonight to log on all excited for 1.03 and to see all the griping just set me off. My apologies.

And how are you supposed to figure out who is higher level and who isn't? I'm always playing against the AI daily since, in general, I dislike online play against idiots...er, I mean other people. That doesn't mean I'm not good or that I'm bad. I'm also just starting to look at modding for this game. None of this would be known unless I came out and told you. I don't see how you can effectively distinguish between more involved and less involved players without getting to know tons of people to figure out who will give the best criticism and praise. Some of the higher level people give terrible feedback like "it sucks because it crashes" while other people you know little about will dig into the log files and editor to specifically find that "it crashes when I go here, but not when I'm here, so maybe there's something with a culling radius that's causing the crash in this area" (this really happened with a UT3 map I built 2 months ago; all the regulars gave terrible input and then someone came along with exactly what I needed). Not everyone's feedback is the same and it's very difficult to predict who delivers what.


I honestly don't agree with this. They should make the game the way they want to play it and just make small tweaks once the public gets its hands on it. The best games are the ones the developers want to play. If they play it then you get a solid experience (Drakan) as opposed to a fractured buggy mishmash (Unreal Tournament 3).

As a former WoW player I disagree, it feels like home lol

@ ZJBDragon

Uhh...I think you mis-read my post. I'm agreeing with you....lol

When I said "listen to everyone's experience equally...." I was disagreeing with innociv (which I think you are doing as well) and then I went on to say "the devs should stay true to their ideals for the game..."   

.... same page methinks!


the Monk

Seriously, what are you trying to say?

nah im just kidding,for all thoose who cant imagine just put yourselves in thier shoes and pretend that a thousand little freaked out kids on a school bus are yelling at you to change the radio.

thats my metaphore for the day

I like 1.03 as well. I also agree that the chat system should not have lost functionality. It should have the new commands as well as the old colors and target sticking. But no doubt, this product is phenomenal and will only get better.

As for balance, people want balance, but they also don't want the sides to be cookie cutters of each other. I think the game has many different strategies to employ for victory, and every strategy seems to have a counter -- though some strategies are harder to implement, and some are harder to counter.

Having to type /a constantly in team games is quite annoying. This should be fixed quickly IMO. Chat worked fine before.

Yeah need more balancing work. They should talk to the higher level players about it, not reactor to newbie whine threads.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This attitude will pretty much kill the game and the company. Sorry, but Stardock made the right decision when deciding to cater to the casual player instead of the protournament goon. This is the philosophy that worked in GalCiv2,it'll work here two.

Nice try though, trying to get your way, how about you save us a lot of time and just spam "Listen only to me!" on every forum. Seeing you crow about yourself in every thread is really tiresome.

Incorrect. Considering everyone's opinion equally rests on the false assumption that everyone is equally informed and competent. Precisely how do you expect listening to people who have no idea what they are talking about will lead to a better game?

Now of course, the million dollar question is, does Stardock actually want a better game? If they take pride in their work and their industry, then they should. But its not like we're earning them any more money by continuing to play.

I totally agree with you TarlSS
Making the game for the 99% of us casual players just makes sense.

You can please most of the people some of the time, or some of the people most of the time, but this just means you'd suck all of the time.

You seem to have missed some things.

IC started supporting the game the moment it went gold (shipped to CD makers). They released 3 patches in little over a month for a game that shipped with few bugs.
IC watches the forums very closely and listens to the players ideas.
IC released a early form of the modding tools before they stated that the complete version would be available because people wanted them so much.
IC has stated that they are going to make a demo for the game, release the final modding tools, do a v1.04 patch AND make a expansion in about a years time.

SD has very little or nothing to do with the patches and content updates apart from the final leg of testing. IC also only has 9 employees.


Where in your mind did you come up with the idea of IC/SD (they make money if IC makes money) not caring about the people who already bought the game? Esspicallywith a expansion pack coming up.

This is the kind of attitude that RUIN ALL games, single and multi players alike. The devs should really LISTEN to everybody and then they, the devs NOT the players, will decide what to do. There is no single definition of balance, we the players can debate for the rest of our lives on what balance really is, and how it should be.

It doesn't matter how "high level, pro, elite, have an idea of what you are talking about". Your definition and views of "Balance" are not exactly the same as mine or of other people. It comes down to the devs, and what THEY think is balance. You either accept it or leave. Sure, if you disagree you can give CONTRUCTIVE feedback on the balance issue, but please DO NOT flame other people calling them noobs or idiots.

I love this post and totally agree with it. Most feedback players give (in my experiences) is something along the lines of: "Its broken. So fix it!" Ok.... How? What's wrong with it? What needs to be fixed/changed/modded and why?

I'm not saying any particular group or another says this because I think its from every gaming "class". In my opinion though I think you hear about it more from more experienced players because "noobs" may feel they don't know enough to make any real arguments. But who knows. That's the way I approach it though. If I don't have enough experience or information on what's bad/good I don't make any suggestions because they would be pointless.

Uhhh newbies don't know what the game needs to be balanced.

I don't understand this stupid argument.
How exactly doesn't balancing the game for competitive play imbalance it for players that don't know every detail, build orders, and strategies?

How does starcraft being well balanced competitively hurt it's casual play?

Balancing it for newbies is what got us into this siege frig mess. (Hardly anyone used them before except AFTER people left the game. Not they're useless to use ever as siege caps are better for the cost AND The siege caps are much harder to kill, and can kill anything not just planets!)
If someone DID get siege frig rushed and spammed, that sounds like a good learning experience for them to me. But I had never seen it happen.